Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

VW engineering executive sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 227 posts

Re: VW engineering executive sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#101

Post by ythn »

rurban wrote: post #81
fluxsauce wrote: post #6

Not questioning his innocence, but will the executives involved be held to the same legal standard? EDIT: FTA > U.S. prosecutors have charged eight current and former Volkswagen executives in connection with the diesel emissions cheating probe. Liang is one of the lowest-ranking executives charged so far. > Another VW executive, Oliver Schmidt, has pleaded guilty and is scheduled to be sentenced in Detroit on Dec. 6.…

> but will the executives involved be held to the same legal standard Yes, they will, but Germany will not extradite them. They already made that clear. And it is very unlikely that the german court system will prosecute them. Haven't heard anything yet, because this might inflict the politicians who backed this Diesel emission testing system for decades. They didn't even go to the technical root yet. Only one made t…

> And it is very unlikely that the german court system will prosecute them.

Germany is cool that its citizens conducted international fraud at a scale the world has never seen?

Re: VW engineering executive sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#102

Post by maxerickson »

bitL wrote: post #98
maxerickson wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In another article his role is described as "head of the Diesel Competence unit in the U.S." Maybe not directly comparable to a janitor.

It was a hyperbole; anyway, his current position is irrelevant, important is what positions he held while developing this software (which was deployed for many years). Article mentions "Liang is still employed by Volkswagen but no longer works as an engineer".

The article I got that from was from when he entered his plea, I'm pretty sure it is describing the role he had that was related to the charges.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-09-09/veteran-v...

Re: VW engineering executive sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#103

Post by bitmapbrother »

I was watching a german program on the VW scandal and was surprised to learn that the German government allowed VW to issue a software patch to correct the problem instead of offering to repair or compensate owners for the cars they purchased. Even with the software patch the vehicles still released emissions that were well above the norm.

Also, I don't believe any VW executives have ever been charged in Germany.

Re: VW engineering executive sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#104

Post by 21 »

tyingq wrote: post #74
Geekette wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doubtful. He made his decisions as an adult, fully aware of what was right/legal - he could have refused but chose not to.

True, they did make a choice. The nuance I'm interested in is whether a person in this situation would reasonably assume they would lose their job, or promotion opportunities, etc, if they didn't do the illegal task as asked. And if so, does that create a civil liability?

I doubt it.

Losing a job is not an excuse to do illegal tasks, especially when you have a senior well payed job and are not exactly scraping by.

In some cases you might even be required to report such illegal requests to some authority.

Re: VW engineering executive sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#105

Post by Geekette »

angersock wrote: post #55
Geekette wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the typical pattern of cooperation and plea deals, I assume his cooperation was in exchange for lesser charges and/or a relatively lenient sentence, i.e. it could have been much worse without.

Sure, but that doesn't mean it's any better. "I'll only break your hand instead of cutting it off" doesn't mean you're getting a good deal.

Your anger is misplaced: He IS guilty of wrongdoing (and doesn't dispute it), therefore, entitled to being held accountable, especially as an exec who led a related engineering division.

Re: VW engineering executive sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#106

Post by quakeguy »

okreallywtf wrote: post #97
rurban wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but will the executives involved be held to the same legal standard Yes, they will, but Germany will not extradite them. They already made that clear. And it is very unlikely that the german court system will prosecute them. Haven't heard anything yet, because this might inflict the politicians who backed this Diesel emission testing system for decades. They didn't even go to the technical root yet. Only one made t…

Why will they not, do they fear they will not get a fair trial in the US or will be punished worse than their crimes dictate?

In the land of "rolling coal" (0.0), and no TÜV+AU (0),(1), any sudden punishment of violators from outside reeks of market protection.

(0) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technischer_Überwachungsverein

(1) https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abgasuntersuchung (non english WP link, basically it means "emission checking")

Edit:

(0.0) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_coal

Re: VW engineering executive sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#107

Post by anigbrowl »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #65
paulus_magnus2 wrote: post #50

Corporations aren't democracies, closer to tyrannies (Chomsky). You refuse work, look for new one... Waiting for his boss to get 400 months, and 10x until CEO level. They killed people ffs.

>They killed people ffs You say that as though they shot them or discussed the possible body count in a meeting. Sure, people died as a far downstream result of a bunch of cars polluting a lot more than they supposedly did. The effect is far enough downstream that it's not really relevant. The alternative to VW breaking the law was not a pollution free world. People die as a result of things that are technically prev…

Sure, people died as a far downstream result of a bunch of cars polluting a lot more than they supposedly did. The effect is far enough downstream that it's not really relevant.

I disagree. Your approach just leads to buck-passing and cover-ups as corporate actors get into the habit of dumping costly externalities in the public's lap while pocketing subsidies and profits obtained through deception.

Guessing the cost of the externality requires estimating the excess pollution emitted by each vehicle model, the mortality incidence associated with the pollutants, and the sales volume - very easy for automotive production executives to acquire and correlate, an economic analysis they would be expected to perform anyway as part of their job.

Re: VW engineering executive sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#108

Post by pm90 »

bitmapbrother wrote: post #103

I was watching a german program on the VW scandal and was surprised to learn that the German government allowed VW to issue a software patch to correct the problem instead of offering to repair or compensate owners for the cars they purchased. Even with the software patch the vehicles still released emissions that were well above the norm. Also, I don't believe any VW executives have ever been charged in Germany.

Are the emission standards in the US equivalent to those in Germany? From what I recall, the US has tougher standards. Granted, the cars will still be polluting, but they aren't technically illegal; in the US they are illegal to use.

Re: VW engineering executive sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#109

Post by 21 »

B1FF_PSUVM wrote: post #51
aianus wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Is Pizza Hut's CEO criminally responsible if I run a red light to deliver a pizza because I'm afraid of being late? Edit: Please explain how the VW case is any different than my analogy

Actually, he should be. Unless he can show you had the training and the incentives to not do that, so it was entirely your fault. If you're afraid with a reason, someone else did that to you. (Those people have spreadsheets with everything weighed. Raise their costs, they'll cut out the psycho.)

Obeying the traffic laws is your responsibility, not the company's.

Otherwise the next time the CEO asks you to destroy the competition you'll say that he didn't specifically told you to not actually take that literally so it isn't your fault that you shot a guy in the head.

Re: VW engineering executive sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#110

Post by DominikPeters »

okreallywtf wrote: post #97
rurban wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but will the executives involved be held to the same legal standard Yes, they will, but Germany will not extradite them. They already made that clear. And it is very unlikely that the german court system will prosecute them. Haven't heard anything yet, because this might inflict the politicians who backed this Diesel emission testing system for decades. They didn't even go to the technical root yet. Only one made t…

Why will they not, do they fear they will not get a fair trial in the US or will be punished worse than their crimes dictate?

If they are German citizens, then the German constitution prevents the state from extraditing them (to a non-EU country).

https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/gg/art_16.html

Post reply on HN