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The U.S. is risking an academic brain drain

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Re: The U.S. is risking an academic brain drain

#121

Post by cloakandswagger »

krapp wrote: post #105
notyourday wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course US does. We really need to acknowledge that. Don't believe it? Support US withdrawing from mutual defense pacts with South Korea and Japan and NATO.

>Support US withdrawing from mutual defense pacts with South Korea and Japan and NATO. I wouldn't support the US reneging on its current security agreements, particularly with Japan, since we forced them into their current pacifist regime, but if South Korea, Japan and/or NATO wanted the US out, I wouldn't oppose it. I'm afraid there's a point at which America's overwhelming military, cultural and political dominance…

People greatly underestimate the magnitude of bloodshed that would come with American isolationism.

Because of Pax Americana, most people can't even grasp the concept or seriousness of, say, a neighboring nation dropping bombs on your city just because they want your territory. The US is insulated from such concerns, Europe is rife with them :)

Re: The U.S. is risking an academic brain drain

#122

Post by krapp »

notyourday wrote: post #112
krapp wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Support US withdrawing from mutual defense pacts with South Korea and Japan and NATO. I wouldn't support the US reneging on its current security agreements, particularly with Japan, since we forced them into their current pacifist regime, but if South Korea, Japan and/or NATO wanted the US out, I wouldn't oppose it. I'm afraid there's a point at which America's overwhelming military, cultural and political dominance…

> I wouldn't support the US reneging on its current security agreements, particularly with Japan, since we forced them into their current pacifist regime, but if South Korea, Japan and/or NATO wanted the US out, I wouldn't oppose it. Why? If US does nothing for their security, then there's zero point of US spending money on it. It is like code - if the line is NOOP, then it should just go.

I don't believe the US does nothing for their security, certainly in the case of South Korea and Japan I think the US has been both an asset and a burden. I'm just not certain that what the US does is entirely necessary, meaning I don't think it's impossible for the world to go on without American interference and it shouldn't be a unilateral decision on the part of the US to simply opt out.

If the US has treaty obligations that require its military engagement, then those need to be upheld, or else the US should try to renegotiate them. Otherwise, even if the security situation is made worse, the US should respect other countries' sovereignty if they want them gone.

Re: The U.S. is risking an academic brain drain

#123

Post by com2kid »

ecshafer wrote: post #104
danmaz74 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well in Europe you usually get your 2 weeks Are there EU nations that give so little paid vacation? At least in the West, I think at least 3 weeks (non contiguous) is the norm...

In the us, I get 4 weeks and can take it basically however I want. I can choose to get 5 weeks by buying it. Depending on my team I might not be able to take the month leading up to taxes off, but a month off is easily done and happens often.

> In the us, I get 4 weeks and can take it basically however I want. I can choose to get 5 weeks by buying it.

I can get up to six weeks with roll over. Used up 4 weeks for my wedding, still had 2 weeks left, saved one of them up so I'd have 5 weeks in total the next year.

It is very hard to paint the US with a broad brush.

Re: The U.S. is risking an academic brain drain

#124

Post by robotresearcher »

sol_remmy wrote: post #88
CorvusCrypto wrote: post #8

While I don't feel that there is risk of brain drain because of the reasons listed in the article, I do believe there is that risk. To be honest, even though many European countries don't pay as much as the US for the same job, I found much more comfort around the ideas pushed in those countries. The culture I found in Sweden for instance is one that is much better for the employees than the fast-paced top-gun style…

60k in Sweden: 30k after tax 60k in U.S.: 40k after tax

Then remove health costs from the US remainder, equivalent to those provided by taxes alone in Sweden.

Re: The U.S. is risking an academic brain drain

#125

Post by dragonwriter »

derping69 wrote: post #17
CorvusCrypto wrote: post #8

While I don't feel that there is risk of brain drain because of the reasons listed in the article, I do believe there is that risk. To be honest, even though many European countries don't pay as much as the US for the same job, I found much more comfort around the ideas pushed in those countries. The culture I found in Sweden for instance is one that is much better for the employees than the fast-paced top-gun style…

Europe is able to do this because the US subsidizes their existence. 1. Pharma companies develop drugs with US subsidies and make their profits off US citizens while European countries put price ceilings on their drugs. 2. US essentially defends the world, allowing other countries to spend money elsewhere. http://www.ibtimes.com/how-us-subsidizes-cheap-drugs-europe-...

> US essentially defends the world, allowing other countries to spend money elsewhere.

The US doesn't “defend the world” by any stretch of the imagination. As for what it does commit to defending, well, other countries wouldn't let the US put the forces and facilities in their countries that the US wants there for global force protection of the US didn't also make a credible commitment to mutual defense; the US doesn't “defend the world” as a charitable service, it agrees to assist with the defence of select countries in order to contain others, secure access to key resources, and be in a position to project force to advance US interests anywhere in the world.

Re: The U.S. is risking an academic brain drain

#126

Post by holydude »

dmode wrote: post #117
holydude wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found this to be pretty much a very biased subjective analogy. I am a european so I hope my "anti-european-rant" will be better accepted but lets see... Europeans often have this illusion of a working social democracy compared to the US suggesting their by default offered benefits to be superior to the offers from the US. That's not the case. In a lot of middle-income-class positions you get most of the things you…

I work in a company that has significant European presence. Plus I have worked for a year in Netherlands. Company approach to European employees and US employees are very different. Sure you get paid a lot more in the US, but most companies are very stingy with vacations (doesn't matter what the vacation rules are). People in our European offices are routinely out for the entire month of August, very little email dur…

Which again does not contradict what i wrote does it ? You may prefer it to be the norm but it cannot be considered a universally the best approach. I mean look ... some people actually prefer the steretypical american way. And then there are people like you that have different preferences.

What I was trying to say is that in the US you get to get nice salary and the euro perks quiet often but in Europe you are pretty much stuck when it comes to money.

Re: The U.S. is risking an academic brain drain

#127

Post by throthrothis »

robotresearcher wrote: post #6
vostok wrote: post #4

I don't see a brain drain happening. American academic pay is better than European/Canadian/Australian academic pay by too wide of a margin. As far as politics goes, I don't think America is that much worse (if at all worse) than other high paying countries.

Canada is getting some great talent right now. Americans, Brits, and people who would have gone to the US or UK are coming here. If we can keep them here, this will be a big boost for Canada long term.

I made the move to Canada some years back. Coincidentally, there was a thread about H1B and here is my comment why I moved to Canada.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15100981

Re: The U.S. is risking an academic brain drain

#128

Post by rpiguy »

robotresearcher wrote: post #116
rpiguy wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bad examples. Legal immigrants are different from "cheap labor" (H-1B and seasonal/temporary workers for example) which does depress wages. Once you have a green card you can demand higher wages and threaten to pack up and move to the competition. I don't want to start an immigration argument, but the skills based system that has been proposed and was in place in Canada would have let Einstein, von Braun, Brin, Fermi…

You seem to be arguing something completely different to the grandparent comment.

Just pointing out that cheap labor and immigrants are not synonymous.

Re: The U.S. is risking an academic brain drain

#130

Post by krapp »

cloakandswagger wrote: post #121
krapp wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Support US withdrawing from mutual defense pacts with South Korea and Japan and NATO. I wouldn't support the US reneging on its current security agreements, particularly with Japan, since we forced them into their current pacifist regime, but if South Korea, Japan and/or NATO wanted the US out, I wouldn't oppose it. I'm afraid there's a point at which America's overwhelming military, cultural and political dominance…

People greatly underestimate the magnitude of bloodshed that would come with American isolationism. Because of Pax Americana, most people can't even grasp the concept or seriousness of, say, a neighboring nation dropping bombs on your city just because they want your territory. The US is insulated from such concerns, Europe is rife with them :)

Pax Americana can't last forever. The world must inevitably move on from the the old "gods playing chess" paradigm of East vs West. Something has to come next.
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