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The U.S. is risking an academic brain drain

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Re: The U.S. is risking an academic brain drain

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true. The uptick in Canadian academic hiring is about something other than money, I'm guessing.

probably canadians going back home because ... family.

That's a roughly steady state flow, all else being equal, and wouldn't explain the change.

Re: The U.S. is risking an academic brain drain

#92
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Einstein, von Braun, Musk, Brin. Immigrants are more than cheap labor. edit just for a bit more diversity: Madeleine Albright, Schwarzenegger, Ang Lee, Tesla, Fermi, Audrey Hepburn, Sataya Nadella, Jerry Yang, Cary Grant... edit 2, correction: Ang Lee's Wikipedia page says he's a resident and not a US citizen. Another alien undercutting US labour like James Cameron and Ridley Scott.

Citing examples doesn't really convince anyone intellectually curious, determined or with momentum in the opposite idea. What you need to do to definitely drive the point is to compare "rock star per group". Then just compare the two values, and see which group has a higher "rock star" ratio, or whatever you want to call them. Pretty obvious, right? Then you have go on and prove that for every one of those imported "…

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Re: The U.S. is risking an academic brain drain

#93

While I don't feel that there is risk of brain drain because of the reasons listed in the article, I do believe there is that risk. To be honest, even though many European countries don't pay as much as the US for the same job, I found much more comfort around the ideas pushed in those countries. The culture I found in Sweden for instance is one that is much better for the employees than the fast-paced top-gun style…

Yep, I'm a US citizen with an American PhD in CS. I did a five year stint at a research lab in Iceland, and after two years back in the states, we're in the process of moving back to Reykjavik now, for most of the reasons you're discussing (as well as the bleak outlook for US science funding, and well, the overall bleak outlook for the US as just a suitable place to live at this point, but hey).

Re: The U.S. is risking an academic brain drain

#94

While I don't feel that there is risk of brain drain because of the reasons listed in the article, I do believe there is that risk. To be honest, even though many European countries don't pay as much as the US for the same job, I found much more comfort around the ideas pushed in those countries. The culture I found in Sweden for instance is one that is much better for the employees than the fast-paced top-gun style…

Have you looked into employment with a US government (either state, local, or federal)? It's pretty much exactly what you described, plus you get to work on real problems instead of churning your minimally viable product into framework flavor of the month.

Re: The U.S. is risking an academic brain drain

#95
post #44
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>US essentially defends the world, allowing other countries to spend money elsewhere. You really think that? I mean come on

I totally agree. The US should withdraw all its military personnel and equipment from Europe as quickly as feasible.

The US will never do that because then Russia will fill the power vacuum and that is something the US leadership will not tolerate

Re: The U.S. is risking an academic brain drain

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps I'm too optimistic, but I think everything America needs to succeed and grow can be found right here in America. The problem is that it's sometimes cheaper to import foreign labor, or export domestic production.

Einstein, von Braun, Musk, Brin. Immigrants are more than cheap labor. edit just for a bit more diversity: Madeleine Albright, Schwarzenegger, Ang Lee, Tesla, Fermi, Audrey Hepburn, Sataya Nadella, Jerry Yang, Cary Grant... edit 2, correction: Ang Lee's Wikipedia page says he's a resident and not a US citizen. Another alien undercutting US labour like James Cameron and Ridley Scott.

the standard, American theoretical response to an individual with a low standard of living is: "lack of talent is not the problem. lack of education is. these individuals simply need more education in order to access better opportunities."

one might argue, on a national level, that because lack of education -- not talent -- is the true limiting factor, there are plenty of existing US residents who are capable of filling these jobs. the US can simply train from within and promote from within.

at the same time, the standard American theoretical response for the lack of expertise and trained labor required to grow the companies is: "we can't find anyone here who can do the job. period. we absolutely have to import people from foreign countries."

one might argue, on a national level, that there's no point in spending government money to further the education of US residents. they'll never be able to do the work anyway. instead, America might as well write these people off and import different people who already have the talent, expertise, training, education.

don't these ideas contradict each other? which theory is right?

Re: The U.S. is risking an academic brain drain

#97
post #36

> The U.S. is risking an academic brain drain He got a good offer from his home country. Isn't that a good thing that he gets to go home to his country and contribute there? he fact they can spare $250k for him to buy a house and $1M in grant money says a lot about China. Having been in academia for a bit, it seemed there was an oversupply of PhD in some fields. There are just not going to be enough university teachi…

And really, to be fair, America has been benefiting from brain drain from the whole rest of the world for decades and decades. Almost centuries. It probably can't last forever.

Re: The U.S. is risking an academic brain drain

#98

While I don't feel that there is risk of brain drain because of the reasons listed in the article, I do believe there is that risk. To be honest, even though many European countries don't pay as much as the US for the same job, I found much more comfort around the ideas pushed in those countries. The culture I found in Sweden for instance is one that is much better for the employees than the fast-paced top-gun style…

60k in Sweden: 30k after tax 60k in U.S.: 40k after tax

It depends on where you live. It's about 37k usd after taxes in Stockholm.

Re: The U.S. is risking an academic brain drain

#99

While I don't feel that there is risk of brain drain because of the reasons listed in the article, I do believe there is that risk. To be honest, even though many European countries don't pay as much as the US for the same job, I found much more comfort around the ideas pushed in those countries. The culture I found in Sweden for instance is one that is much better for the employees than the fast-paced top-gun style…

> Well in Europe you usually get your 2 weeks

Are there EU nations that give so little paid vacation? At least in the West, I think at least 3 weeks (non contiguous) is the norm...

Re: The U.S. is risking an academic brain drain

#100
post #15

risking? it's been happing for years already. both in the "drain" sense, those leaving the US, and with fewer "brains" coming to the US from other places. also, with the decline in US academics, fewer are being created in the US to begin with. altogether, three different factors making a "brain drain".

There are fewer permanent positions being created,not fewer academics. Hence the post-doc crisis. The risk is that a paying country might win a big portion of US born post docs ifthe situatio doesn't change.

i would argue there are fewer qualified academics being created in the U.S., because our educational system is declining and has been for some time, relative to other countries.
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