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As Coding Boot Camps Close, the Field Faces a Reality Check

nytimes.com

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Re: As Coding Boot Camps Close, the Field Faces a Reality Check

#71

Post by jacalata »

gaius wrote: post #37
booleandilemma wrote: post #13

Really? What about the STEM shortage?

There is no STEM shortage and hasn't been for decades. Unemployment for CS grads in the UK is 14% according to the Graun (other sources have it at only 13%). And these people want to charge you a fortune claiming they can teach you better than a 3-year degree in a few weeks.

Best I can guess that you are referring to is their articles referring to this gov study, which says 13% unemployment across all STEM grads: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachm...

Re: As Coding Boot Camps Close, the Field Faces a Reality Check

#72

Post by barrkel »

babaganoosh89 wrote: post #66
chris11 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's saying a person with a liberal arts degree and some amateur experience looks better than some one who graduated from a boot camp. The implication is that boot camps let people appear better than they are. And you don't need to tell them you went to a boot camp. So if you get hired without mentioning it you won't deal with that bias.

Depends on the boot camp, but a boot camper would probably write better code than someone that's self taught.

Someone who's self taught doesn't need a bootcamp.

In reality all good coders are self taught - you can't really teach this stuff. You have to learn to play, to explore the solution space and figure out the different ways of composing your raw materials. And you need to do this over and over again throughout your career as new materials become available. Self-teaching never stops.

Re: As Coding Boot Camps Close, the Field Faces a Reality Check

#74

Post by stale2002 »

marmart wrote: post #67
babaganoosh89 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the boot camp, but a boot camper would probably write better code than someone that's self taught.

Hack Reactor is touted as really exclusive, but it's a 12 week boot camp. Does anyone seriously think that 3 months or even 6 months is enough to become any sort of passable? A well paced, self taught programmer can surely strive to a higher standard.

Passable for what?

For a junior web developer position? Yes, absolutely.

And it turns out that junior web developers make a shit ton of money in the bay area.

A whole lot of companies do not need serious CS algorithms experts. A whole lot of companies merely need blue collar, CRUD web devs to build their CRUD angular react node web app.

Being a crud web devoper is still a pretty good gig.

Re: As Coding Boot Camps Close, the Field Faces a Reality Check

#75

Post by [deleted] »

babaganoosh89 wrote: post #66
chris11 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's saying a person with a liberal arts degree and some amateur experience looks better than some one who graduated from a boot camp. The implication is that boot camps let people appear better than they are. And you don't need to tell them you went to a boot camp. So if you get hired without mentioning it you won't deal with that bias.

Depends on the boot camp, but a boot camper would probably write better code than someone that's self taught.

[deleted]

Re: As Coding Boot Camps Close, the Field Faces a Reality Check

#76

Post by babaganoosh89 »

marmart wrote: post #67
babaganoosh89 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the boot camp, but a boot camper would probably write better code than someone that's self taught.

Hack Reactor is touted as really exclusive, but it's a 12 week boot camp. Does anyone seriously think that 3 months or even 6 months is enough to become any sort of passable? A well paced, self taught programmer can surely strive to a higher standard.

Hack Reactor is ~11 hours a day and has all the social support and camaraderie that comes when you do the same thing w/ other people. I'd be surprised if someone on their own could learn as well in the same time.

Re: As Coding Boot Camps Close, the Field Faces a Reality Check

#77

Post by aedron »

pfarnsworth wrote: post #36

Same thing happened during the dotcom boom/bust. Newly-minted MCSE (Microsoft Certified Systems Engineers) were coming out of the woodwork with almost no real experience, and immediately getting well-paying jobs ($80k-100k at the time). As soon as the bust hit, those certificates were worthless and those people moved away from the Bay Area in droves. They didn't have any real passion for the job, they just knew that…

I can't believe how much this looks like 1999. Remember "Will code HTML for food"? Prepare to see a lot of JavaScript developers hanging around the back of Home Depot...

Re: As Coding Boot Camps Close, the Field Faces a Reality Check

#78

Post by stale2002 »

gaius wrote: post #37
booleandilemma wrote: post #13

Really? What about the STEM shortage?

There is no STEM shortage and hasn't been for decades. Unemployment for CS grads in the UK is 14% according to the Graun (other sources have it at only 13%). And these people want to charge you a fortune claiming they can teach you better than a 3-year degree in a few weeks.

Then how come our salaries are so high in the bay area?

There is certainly a geographic shortage at least, right?

Perhaps those people in the UK need to move to a location where their skills are more in demand.

Re: As Coding Boot Camps Close, the Field Faces a Reality Check

#79

Post by sheepmullet »

babaganoosh89 wrote: post #76
marmart wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hack Reactor is touted as really exclusive, but it's a 12 week boot camp. Does anyone seriously think that 3 months or even 6 months is enough to become any sort of passable? A well paced, self taught programmer can surely strive to a higher standard.

Hack Reactor is ~11 hours a day and has all the social support and camaraderie that comes when you do the same thing w/ other people. I'd be surprised if someone on their own could learn as well in the same time.

> Hack Reactor is ~11 hours a day

11 hours a day for 12 weeks can't compare with two hours a day for a year.

Re: As Coding Boot Camps Close, the Field Faces a Reality Check

#80

Post by Alacart »

Who gives a shit where or how you learned to code. What a stupid and indirect way to filter candidates.

Just show me what you've done. Send me repo links, production code, or even just the end result with some sort of proof that you actually built it. That's the best part about any craft - practicing or building something creates tangible results. If you don't already have a portfolio, get to work on that before you start applying.

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