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Uber, Mired in Corporate Scandals, Sees Uptick in Bookings

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Re: Uber, Mired in Corporate Scandals, Sees Uptick in Bookings

#71

Post by DMac87 »

School-Cotton wrote: post #50
will_brown wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>For every one person saying: "Uber is evil, don't use them" There are ten saying "Meh, its cheap and convenient." I guess there is actually an 11th person saying, awesome I can financially support this evil company in the short term and make a quick buck. I've been talking a lot about boycotts lately on HN to curb unwanted corporate behavior, in particular as it relates to a lot of the recent 1st Amendment issues an…

How is buying a company's stock "financially supporting" them?

Decreasing the company's cost of equity capital...

Re: Uber, Mired in Corporate Scandals, Sees Uptick in Bookings

#72

Post by ghaff »

sjg007 wrote: post #66
dogruck wrote: post #29

Yup. And United's business was unmarred after the Chicago PD violently removed a raving doctor from a flight. No surprises here.

There is weird regulatory capture in these markets. Taxi cabs are universally bad. Black cars are better but have always been expensive and harder to use b/c of pre-booking. Hotels/Motels offer dubious over-priced quality. They hide behind no-refund policies and maintain in general poor standards. So I support airBnb, uber, and lyft b/c I'm tired of being ripped off.

>Black cars are better but have always been expensive and harder to use b/c of pre-booking

They also offer a consistent experience and pre-booking is often a feature. I use black cars to go back and forth to my home airport way more often than I use Uber/taxis/etc. when traveling.

>Hotels/Motels offer dubious over-priced quality.

Again consistency and reliability. I don't generally love the chains but I also don't have complaints about them which is what I care about most of the time.

Re: Uber, Mired in Corporate Scandals, Sees Uptick in Bookings

#73

Post by hkmurakami »

will_brown wrote: post #31
Z1nfandel wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So true. Most people just don't care. I've used this to my advantage over the past few years, as soon as a "big corporate scandal" breaks the stock tends to fall. Check their financials, buy the stock if it looks good, then wait a few months for it to all blow over. My most recent was Wells Fargo during their opening accounts scandal. Bought early Oct, Sold late Jan. 20.06% profit. There were so many headlines callin…

>For every one person saying: "Uber is evil, don't use them" There are ten saying "Meh, its cheap and convenient." I guess there is actually an 11th person saying, awesome I can financially support this evil company in the short term and make a quick buck. I've been talking a lot about boycotts lately on HN to curb unwanted corporate behavior, in particular as it relates to a lot of the recent 1st Amendment issues an…

The only boycott in recent memory that I know of with a meaningful impact on the corporate bottom line, ironically, was the conservative boycott of Target over its public support of transgender bathroom rights. http://www.businessinsider.com/target-ceo-blindsided-by-boyc...

Re: Uber, Mired in Corporate Scandals, Sees Uptick in Bookings

#74

Post by Analemma_ »

will_brown wrote: post #31
Z1nfandel wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So true. Most people just don't care. I've used this to my advantage over the past few years, as soon as a "big corporate scandal" breaks the stock tends to fall. Check their financials, buy the stock if it looks good, then wait a few months for it to all blow over. My most recent was Wells Fargo during their opening accounts scandal. Bought early Oct, Sold late Jan. 20.06% profit. There were so many headlines callin…

>For every one person saying: "Uber is evil, don't use them" There are ten saying "Meh, its cheap and convenient." I guess there is actually an 11th person saying, awesome I can financially support this evil company in the short term and make a quick buck. I've been talking a lot about boycotts lately on HN to curb unwanted corporate behavior, in particular as it relates to a lot of the recent 1st Amendment issues an…

To be blunt, your efforts to improve corporate behavior are better spent elsewhere.

The fact that boycotts never work isn't just a moral shame in the abstract; it has real, practical policy implications. It's one of the main reasons why I'm dismissive of libertarianism and its conviction that government regulation is unnecessary because consumer behavior will fix wrongdoings.

You say you want to build a platform to organize boycotts, but consider: your network can't possibly become larger than Facebook (with 2 billion users), and I see constant attempts on Facebook to organize boycotts, to no effect. There's nothing you can do to significantly improve on this outcome.

Honestly, if you really want businesses to behave better, your best ROI would come from advocacy both in favor of more government transparency, and against libertarianism (especially among developer-types, where it has spread like a highly unfortunate mind virus).

Re: Uber, Mired in Corporate Scandals, Sees Uptick in Bookings

#75

Post by Z1nfandel »

will_brown wrote: post #31
Z1nfandel wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So true. Most people just don't care. I've used this to my advantage over the past few years, as soon as a "big corporate scandal" breaks the stock tends to fall. Check their financials, buy the stock if it looks good, then wait a few months for it to all blow over. My most recent was Wells Fargo during their opening accounts scandal. Bought early Oct, Sold late Jan. 20.06% profit. There were so many headlines callin…

>For every one person saying: "Uber is evil, don't use them" There are ten saying "Meh, its cheap and convenient." I guess there is actually an 11th person saying, awesome I can financially support this evil company in the short term and make a quick buck. I've been talking a lot about boycotts lately on HN to curb unwanted corporate behavior, in particular as it relates to a lot of the recent 1st Amendment issues an…

>If you don't mind, I guess like a sort of prelaunch feedback, what would it take for someone like you, willing to profit on bad corporate behavior, to instead become a leader for change?

I think it would take a few things, and I'll try my best to elaborate on why.

1. Ability to affect change. I like to be successful, its one of my primary drivers in life. If I spend X hours working on some task, I want to see the results. Changing large swaths of people to do anything, is a challenge. So there exists this function of needing to wield enough influence over a large enough population that you influence corporate choices. Until you reach that critical mass, you are insignificant. A company by law exists to make money for shareholders, so expect them to ignore your small voice for a more profitable choice until your voice is large enough that ignoring you is no longer profitable. Same mindset applies to corporate fines. "We the ORG hereby fine your company $100k for this practice allowing you to profit $10MM" Cool... so we made $9.9MM we otherwise wouldn't have made. "So hit me with a fine. We can afford it." -Jaime Dimon. Back to my original point, few people want to devote their working hours towards a problem they don't feel they can succeed at. You want me on your ship? Convince me my effort has a measurable effect. Make sure the effect is worth my effort.

2. Unified Direction A centralized boycott platform sounds great in theory, but there are people that want to boycott everything, for every reason you can think of. I guess you'll have an upvote system or some filtering mechanism so the most popular ones get visibility/funding, but you will far eclipse the reasonable number of companies to protest. Everyone has different thresholds, but I doubt I would want to live a life where I'm boycotting your platforms entire top 10 list. Remember the Occupy Wall Street protests? Tons of headlines all over the place, even Presidential comments. Without looking it up, what were their goals?

3. Passion I would have to care about the issue. Am I going to boycott YCombinator because their CEO built their house on an endangered sand flea population? No, I couldn't care less about the fleas. Would I boycott YCombinator if they decided my murder my family? Yup. Every issue falls somewhere on the scale of "does this matter to me." Its hard to become a leader for changes you don't care about. Some people are selfish, some aren't. Everyone decides for themselves.

4. Fads This one is almost what I directly referenced in my original comment. Its popular to hate a company for a month, then something else pops up in the news and steals attention. How long do you expect to keep the boycott strong enough to matter? I don't want to be a leader hopping on the latest headlines every 4 months.

You solve those problems, and I would be the "leader for change." However, if you've solved those problems, you have no need for me.

Re: Uber, Mired in Corporate Scandals, Sees Uptick in Bookings

#76

Post by Z1nfandel »

djcapelis wrote: post #38
will_brown wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>For every one person saying: "Uber is evil, don't use them" There are ten saying "Meh, its cheap and convenient." I guess there is actually an 11th person saying, awesome I can financially support this evil company in the short term and make a quick buck. I've been talking a lot about boycotts lately on HN to curb unwanted corporate behavior, in particular as it relates to a lot of the recent 1st Amendment issues an…

I created my HN account 2884 days ago and this comment is the first time in a long time I’ve felt this forum has had some serious conversations about the conflicts between ethics and profits. I am so glad to see people questioning the means leading to financial ends. Thank you for directly bringing the dynamics of how financial incentives are impacting the reality we live in into the conversation. I sorely hope the p…

>I sorely hope the person you responded to manages not to feel too attacked and gives a frank and truthful answer on where their line is with respect to not wanting to profit off a corporate scandal.

Nope, never felt attacked. Takes a lot to get me riled.

I don't go seeking companies that break laws to enhance profits.

However, I did notice a long time ago, that constant publicity will have an effect on stock price. This is fairly common knowledge. Bad publicity and "public outrage" will frequently result in lower stock prices. So I take a look at their underlying business, see if its sound, then make a bet (buy shares) that the public will move on shortly.

Is that profiting on corporate scandal, or market (public sentiment) overreaction? Up to you to decide.

Re: Uber, Mired in Corporate Scandals, Sees Uptick in Bookings

#77

Post by swang »

necessity wrote: post #61
djcapelis wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I created my HN account 2884 days ago and this comment is the first time in a long time I’ve felt this forum has had some serious conversations about the conflicts between ethics and profits. I am so glad to see people questioning the means leading to financial ends. Thank you for directly bringing the dynamics of how financial incentives are impacting the reality we live in into the conversation. I sorely hope the p…

Except Uber didn't do anything deserving of a boycott.

what exactly would be deserving of a boycott?

Re: Uber, Mired in Corporate Scandals, Sees Uptick in Bookings

#78

Post by tmh79 »

justicezyx wrote: post #60
malandrew wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Losses as a percent of gross bookings: Uber: 8% Lyft: 13.5% Lyft is the one buying marketshare, not Uber.

Both are buying, right?

sort of, but lyft's market share costs 50% more than uber's market share

Re: Uber, Mired in Corporate Scandals, Sees Uptick in Bookings

#79

Post by AOsborn »

QAPereo wrote: post #13
askafriend wrote: post #2

Of course Uber sees an uptick in bookings. None of the people using the service in almost 200 countries worldwide are tuned into the daily drama of Silicon Valley. Normal people want to get from point A to point B in the most comfortable, efficient, cheap way possible. If that means Uber then so be it. If that means Taxis then so be it. If that means Didi Chuxing then so be it. It just turns out that Uber is well pos…

By the same token the issues which Uber faces really have very little to do with publicity and everything to do with operating at a substantial and constant loss, all bet on a dream of automation which is probably decades away. Uber with drivers simply doesn't work as a profitable business, and the self driving cars they need are simply not going to be here in time to save them. The rest is more or less academic.

Fair viewpoint. I agree with you that this looks like the longer term business plan. However, multiple rounds of investors disagree and have come to the table and bet their cash.

This will be interesting to watch unfold. To extend the runway will cost an increasing amount. However, as the investment from influential investors increases so does the ability of Uber to influence government policy and actually push through self-driving.

Re: Uber, Mired in Corporate Scandals, Sees Uptick in Bookings

#80

Post by AOsborn »

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #46
VikingCoder wrote: post #18

Dear Lyft, you're screwing up your chance. When Uber started to have a bunch of scandal, I tried to switch to Lyft. I really did. But, stuck at a hospital after an emergency room visit, trying to get home at 10pm, I sat there for 45 minutes, watching a driver go from 4 minutes away to 5 minutes away to 8 minutes away, then no driver, then a new driver is 4 minutes away, then 4 minutes away, then 5 minutes away, then…

I guess this brings up the question: Is uber succeeding in its goal? Their value prop is that they can monopolize the taxi business, maybe they're actually pulling it off. Could explain why Lyft is starting to lag.

I think Uber is succeeding. But the goal is less obvious: burn cash to push through regulatory changes, loosening up the transportation market in preparation for self-driving taxis and logistics.

Imagine a new startup trying to convince you to switch your taxi for a new self-driving car? No way.

But an entrenched vendor that you have trusted for 5+ years? Ok, maybe next trip I'll accept your discount and try one of those self-driving cars.

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