Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, it does. The real concern is that the moon-day is a full month long and there is no atmosphere transferring heat; any permanent structures on the surface will get very very cold during those two weeks in the dark. If we don't solve this with suitable solar-charged batteries we would need multiple outposts -- say 4 of them dotted around the Moon -- with colonists rotating through the cities to stay in the Sun. B…
Put a couple large mirrors in orbit around the moon.
Water Found Deep Inside the Moon
141–150 of 284 posts
Re: Water Found Deep Inside the Moon
#142Earlier quoted context omitted.
I rather have Civilization backup in Mars. If the Earth goes, the Moon wouldn't be in a very good shape. Just like I wouldn't go hide in the kitchen, while the living room is burning down.
This is one of the biggest points people miss when talking about civilization back ups. I tend to think of it in IT terms: the moon is like an offline but onsite backup. It will protect you from most internal cockups where as Mars is more like an offsite backup which will protect you should your building (Earth) get taken out
Re: Water Found Deep Inside the Moon
#143Earlier quoted context omitted.
Survival of humanity isn't important universally. The universe doesn't care. But it's the most important thing for humans.
> The universe doesn't care. And that's exactly why it's important. > Survival of humanity isn't important universally. Unless there is something there that cares about it, there is little reason for the universe to exist - nothing would know the difference. Which is why it actually is important universally. > But it's the most important thing for humans. No, it's more important for the universe to have humans, than…
1. What if humans become extinct in a few hundred years? Should the universe then not exist anymore and make more lifeforms?
2. What if there are billions of other "intelligent" species in the universe? Why should the universe care about one specific species that is actually not that great, and very destructive.
3. What if this universe is just an experiment, a petridish and we are just one out of billions of parameters.
4. What if our kind of intelligence is really not that impressive, what if intelligence of dark matter entities, which we don't know about anything is much more powerful, what if even that is not that impressive?
Again, the universe doesn't care. It is not a person, it doesn't have a plan, it is neutral, unless we met our "gods" one day. Humans are just a blip among much larger things that are happening in the universe.
Re: Water Found Deep Inside the Moon
#144Earlier quoted context omitted.
I rather have Civilization backup in Mars. If the Earth goes, the Moon wouldn't be in a very good shape. Just like I wouldn't go hide in the kitchen, while the living room is burning down.
I'm having trouble thinking of catastrophes that could take out both. Well, I can think of a few (bio-weapon, nearby supernova) but they would take out a Mars colony just as easily.
Re: Water Found Deep Inside the Moon
#145I've always been more excited about a Moon colony than a Mars one. I mean, compared to Mars, the Moon is ridiculously close. Many of the same benefits Musk seeks (backup for Civilization, excitement) for a fraction of the cost. Low gravity and atmosphere on a dome would be more complicated, but again, compared to Mars, it's right there . It would be a more humble and realistic first step, IMO.
A lot of the things (majority) that would eradicate life on earth would also eradicate life on the moon.
Re: Water Found Deep Inside the Moon
#146Earlier quoted context omitted.
just like there is water in the most arid deserts on earth ... and still they are a jungle compared to moon and mars. So I think, boone-dry is a quite correct description ...
Adj. 1. bone dry - without a trace of moisture; as dry as a weathered bone
Re: Water Found Deep Inside the Moon
#147Earlier quoted context omitted.
Same lesson as KSRobinson's Mars series. Same lesson as the United States secession and rebellion against Great Britain. You make the government local, or the local government that eventually forms will rebel. Then it will beat you, because it can react to the local situation more quickly. You might be able to control the Moon from Earth, but Mars will definitely be self-governing. It's all about the latency.
Why didn't Canada rebel? Australia? Falkland Islands? Malta? India? Nigeria? Belize? Tunisia? Samoa? Puerto Rico? The Philippines? Guam? Most of the Caribbean? In fact, off the top of my head the only times that you saw a colony rebel in a circumstance like that was the U.S and Haiti. Now you can point pout that most of the countries I mentioned are independent or quasi-independent today but most of them got that sta…
The comparison you should be making is the rebellion of a distant colony versus a more local rebellion. I.e. why did the American Revolution succeed, but the Whiskey Rebellion fail?
Re: Water Found Deep Inside the Moon
#148I imagine it would be useful to gather core samples from a variety of locations and catalog the location of resources. I wonder how much of that could be done with higher intensity radar aimed at the surface while in orbit...
Re: Water Found Deep Inside the Moon
#149Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why not poles?
I'm glad you asked! So there's an important physics reason why the equator is warm and the North and South poles are cold on this planet, and it has to do with how you point a surface. If you ever find yourself in a dark office with a bright desk lamp (or maybe your home office or kid's bedroom might be suitable) you might even try this experiment: take a flat surface, a notepad or steno pad, and hold it up facing th…
I think you are drastically overstating the difficulty of heating a lunar polar base. You are surrounded by vacuum, one of the best insulators around. It can be used.
Of course a lunar base would probably be underground (for more radiation protection) and the lunar soil would quickly wick heat away. Simple to deal with. Excavate a small cavern and suspend the base inside the cavern. Aluminize the cavern walls if possible. Now the colony has its own thermos bottle and staying warm is easy.
Sunlight is just as intense at the lunar poles as the equator. The ground receives less solar energy, but that doesn't mean that less energy is present. In fact there is more solar energy available at some sites since the panels could receive light continuously instead of in 28 day cycles. (Might require putting the panels up on a tower to help reduce libration shadows?)
Re: Water Found Deep Inside the Moon
#150Of course, we already know the Moon has water, the problem is this water is located in permanently shadowed craters. It's hard to get power in a crater that's permanently in the dark. In addition, aside from crashing a spacecraft into one[0], we haven't explored these craters and don't know what the environment is like.
But this new discovery implies that certain surface regions of the Moon could have quite a bit of water. Sure, the water may not be as concentrated as in permanently shadowed regions, but we can get power easier and we understand the lunar surface environment better. Not only that, if the water is in the form we expect, then we have ground truths from the apollo missions from which we can start developing extraction processes[1]. The TRL for robots capable of operating on the lunar surface is relatively high[2][3]. Using specs from top performing team for NASA's lunar robotic mining challenge[] and the estimated concentration of water in regolith, it is reasonable to assume that a rover about the size of China's Chang'e rover could potentially mine enough regolith in about ~75 days to obtain enough water to equal its landed mass(assuming 100% extraction from regolith).
Of course the problem is that the water is locked up in glass. We need to grind or melt the glass up to get the water out. Grinding has the potential to be more energy efficient, but I suspect we won't be able to extract very much and melting glass uses quite a bit of energy. We might be able to reduce the amount of energy by using a molten salt flux to reduce the melting temperature.
Of course, another option is to be smarter about how we use the energy we put into melting glass. We can recapture the heat and run a stirling engine for electrical power. It would be even smarter to put the spent glass itself to use since we have to melt glass anyway, we might as well form it into something useful. We might use the spent glass to make bricks for landing pads, roads, and other structures
[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LCROSS [1]http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2015/12/24/the-last-... [2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunokhod_program [3]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yutu_(rover) [4]http://hdl.handle.net/2060/20120013082 [5]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chang%27e_3 [6]http://www.uapress.arizona.edu/onlinebks/ResourcesNearEarthS...