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I spent my career in tech, but wasn’t prepared for its effect on my kids

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Re: I spent my career in tech, but wasn’t prepared for its effect on my kids

#81

Post by vlunkr »

koolba wrote: post #35
mquander wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spent a lot of the decade of the 90s having the best times of my life immersing myself in video games and the Internet, and looking back it seems to me like I'm the better for it. I think it should rightfully be heartbreaking to deny that to a kid who would have it.

> I think it should rightfully be heartbreaking to deny that to a kid who would have it. I'm going to assume you haven't seen the steaming piles that are today's kid's shows and apps. There's no way that crap is as mentally stimulating as content from the 90s (or before). It's optimized for addiction. And I'm not saying to cut it off entirely. I'm just saying the new stuff is universally terrible.

I have young relatives who could watch minecraft videos on YouTube all day and it makes me want to throw up. To me that's much worse than anything on TV, because it's meaningless and endless.

Re: I spent my career in tech, but wasn’t prepared for its effect on my kids

#82

Post by macNchz »

heartbreak wrote: post #75
forinti wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But cellphones and these endless scrolling social apps that get our attention aren't really the same thing as books or even newspapers. They just seem to suck your ability to focus out of you and don't really give you back anything.

I for one read books on my phone at the park. How’s that any different from reading a paperback book at the park?

There's no real difference in that situation, but people don't generally read paperback books when out to dinner with friends, while driving on the highway, while walking on a crowded sidewalk, during a movie at the theater, during class at school or in a meeting at work... which are all common situations where I regularly see people glued to their phones.

Re: I spent my career in tech, but wasn’t prepared for its effect on my kids

#83

Post by logfromblammo »

nsxwolf wrote: post #50
citizenkeen wrote: post #7

'One of my favorite things you can do is plan a “device-free dinner.”' _A_ device free dinner? Why aren't all of them? These weird little "small gestures" make me feel like people have lost control of their homes. We have a landline expressly to give out to emergency contacts. And dinner is tech free. Every night. I think the main problem is tech has made everything _else_ easier, but parenting harder, and parents ju…

I agree but some of these things sound like moral panics about black rectangles. I don't remember people shaking their heads at parents reading a paperback book at the park, or commuters reading broadsheet newspapers on the train.

As a transhumanist, I see the recent advertisement campaign for device-free dinners as an implicit accusation that devices necessarily inhibit interpersonal engagement rather than enhance it.

A device-free social event makes as much sense to me as having an equipment-free sporting event. Imagine playing baseball without bats, balls, or gloves. Imagine soccer without balls or goals.

The family dinner with meaningful conversation is a cultural construct that is yanked directly from a Normal Rockwell cover on the Saturday Evening Post--a myth of Americana. There is nothing inherently good or virtuous about it. It's fine if that's what your family does, but it's also fine if your family plays poker for chore chits, or if it eats in perfect silence, with no one acknowledging anyone else for the entire duration.

With devices, once my kids are moved out of my house, I will still be able to have conversations with them during dinner, or at any other time of the day. And those conversations will include images with lame pun captions.

"I pretend I'm one of those hikikomori. That way I don't have to have any goddamn stupid useless voice conversations with anybody. If anybody wants to tell me something, they can write it in a text or direct message. They never get bored with their phones, and so I'd get to have asynchronous conversations with proper sentence structure, punctuation, and grammar for the rest of my life. Everybody thinks I'm just a poor hermit bastard, dependent on technology, and no one even cares." --Holden Logfromblammofield

Re: I spent my career in tech, but wasn’t prepared for its effect on my kids

#84

Post by SunnyCanuck »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #69
SunnyCanuck wrote: post #62

Have two kids, 14/12. They've grown up as fully connected kids, have always had access to their own devices, never more than a year or two behind the Big Now. We have never imposed "limits for the sake of limits" on their screen time. I find the idea preposterous, frankly. We have no issue connecting with them, or doing family things together, or etc etc etc. If you can't connect with your kids when they have iPhone…

>We have no issue connecting with them, or // It's good that all people are exactly the same as you and your kids and that this will therefore work for everyone, isn't it. /s

I didn't make any such claim. If you'd like to respond to what was actually written, feel free. :)

Re: I spent my career in tech, but wasn’t prepared for its effect on my kids

#85

Post by i_cant_speel »

nulagrithom wrote: post #68
posguy wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes conversation may occur that otherwise would have been avoided thanks to cellphones, other times you get calming silence instead. Its a definite risk, but the whole equation is ignored usually.

> other times you get calming silence instead I always like that Pulp Fiction line: "That's when you know you've found somebody special. When you can just shut the fuck up for a minute and comfortably enjoy the silence." I don't think a moment of silence is any excuse to pull out the cellphone. In fact, I think this highlights part of the problem we have with cellphones. We expect constant entertainment, action, and…

This morning I was in the elevator with three other people. All three of them were looking at their phones. Strangely, I felt weird just standing there waiting.

I feel like the world transformed so quickly.

Re: I spent my career in tech, but wasn’t prepared for its effect on my kids

#86

Post by lamp_book »

jancsika wrote: post #49
careersuicide wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is the one thing about technology I'm old fashioned about (I roll my eyes hard when people say stuff like "You should delete your Facebook account, you'll be better off."). If I'm eating food with someone else the phone goes away. The only exception is if in the course of conversation an easily googleable question is asked and both the other person/people and I are actually interested in the answer inste…

So the question that I don't know the answer to: would those couples have engaged each other in meaningful conversation (meaningful to them ) had cellphones not existed? Or does the presence of cellphones reveal that a large number of people were never particularly interested in engaging meaningfully with others but would only feign interest when the alibi of the cellphone isn't available?

Or a more optimistic view: it takes some effort to get to interesting conversation; you have to go through some fakeish small talk to find a topic worth discussing. Phones don't require that effort, they're the path of least resistance.

Re: I spent my career in tech, but wasn’t prepared for its effect on my kids

#87

Post by jdmichal »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #69
SunnyCanuck wrote: post #62

Have two kids, 14/12. They've grown up as fully connected kids, have always had access to their own devices, never more than a year or two behind the Big Now. We have never imposed "limits for the sake of limits" on their screen time. I find the idea preposterous, frankly. We have no issue connecting with them, or doing family things together, or etc etc etc. If you can't connect with your kids when they have iPhone…

>We have no issue connecting with them, or // It's good that all people are exactly the same as you and your kids and that this will therefore work for everyone, isn't it. /s

As I read it, you missed the point. Here's my reading: Are the digital devices just current rationalization for connective breaks that happen in family settings? Yes, some families have trouble connecting. No one is arguing that. But would they have trouble connecting even without the presence of these devices?

My opinion is that disconnects are typically about joint values, interests, and expectations. Or, more appropriately, lack thereof. Yes, there's the possibility that the parents don't understand digital devices and therefore are limited in joining the party. But, again my opinion, if it wasn't digital devices, it would be some other thing that was new or foreign to the parents. And so perhaps the real failure is the willingness of the parents to engage at the children's level. It also might represent a lack of shared values and expectations in connecting in the first place.

Re: I spent my career in tech, but wasn’t prepared for its effect on my kids

#88

Post by pbhjpbhj »

jasonmp85 wrote: post #45
citizenkeen wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife is a pediatric OT and she no longer sees children 6 and under whose parents give them an electronic device. She's on the front lines and says those kids are just... rough. Anecdotal, yes, but it's just not worth her time / money.

"Front lines"? Is this a war? Can you expand on this? She no longer sees them because they don't need services, or because she refuses to care for them? What purpose does that serve? I'm seriously dumbfounded. (edited to remove question about why a child needs OT)

From Wikipedia:

"Common occupational therapy interventions include helping children with disabilities to participate fully in school and social situations, helping people recovering from injury to regain skills, and providing supports for older adults experiencing physical and cognitive changes."

I'm guessing a common error is to think a child can't have movement difficulties and that OT is solely about workplace issues.

This page, http://www.wellesleyot.com/, gives a short synopsis of the types of assistance given to children by an OT; along with specific conditions that may increase the need for such help.

Re: I spent my career in tech, but wasn’t prepared for its effect on my kids

#89

Post by ProAm »

citizenkeen wrote: post #7

'One of my favorite things you can do is plan a “device-free dinner.”' _A_ device free dinner? Why aren't all of them? These weird little "small gestures" make me feel like people have lost control of their homes. We have a landline expressly to give out to emergency contacts. And dinner is tech free. Every night. I think the main problem is tech has made everything _else_ easier, but parenting harder, and parents ju…

> Why aren't all of them? These weird little "small gestures" make me feel like people have lost control of their homes.

Fairly judgemental on how people should live their lives no?

Re: I spent my career in tech, but wasn’t prepared for its effect on my kids

#90

Post by shakna »

SunnyCanuck wrote: post #84
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We have no issue connecting with them, or // It's good that all people are exactly the same as you and your kids and that this will therefore work for everyone, isn't it. /s

I didn't make any such claim. If you'd like to respond to what was actually written, feel free. :)

> If you can't connect with your kids when they have iPhone in hand, you're not going to be able to connect with your kids even if you're a million miles from the nearest wireless cloud.

It seems to me, you did make that claim.

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