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Uber, Mired in Corporate Scandals, Sees Uptick in Bookings

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Re: Uber, Mired in Corporate Scandals, Sees Uptick in Bookings

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>For every one person saying: "Uber is evil, don't use them" There are ten saying "Meh, its cheap and convenient." I guess there is actually an 11th person saying, awesome I can financially support this evil company in the short term and make a quick buck. I've been talking a lot about boycotts lately on HN to curb unwanted corporate behavior, in particular as it relates to a lot of the recent 1st Amendment issues an…

I created my HN account 2884 days ago and this comment is the first time in a long time I’ve felt this forum has had some serious conversations about the conflicts between ethics and profits. I am so glad to see people questioning the means leading to financial ends. Thank you for directly bringing the dynamics of how financial incentives are impacting the reality we live in into the conversation. I sorely hope the p…

Except Uber didn't do anything deserving of a boycott.

Re: Uber, Mired in Corporate Scandals, Sees Uptick in Bookings

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is buying a company's stock "financially supporting" them?

Directly

How? Buying stock doesn't transfer any money to the company (unless it's newly issued stock)

Re: Uber, Mired in Corporate Scandals, Sees Uptick in Bookings

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Directly

How? Buying stock doesn't transfer any money to the company (unless it's newly issued stock)

The act of buying stock signals demand and reduces supply, which will effectively cause the price to rise. Indirectly, rising stock prices are a positive indicator for the health of the company. Directly, if the company chooses to sell stock, it will be able to sell it at the higher price.

Re: Uber, Mired in Corporate Scandals, Sees Uptick in Bookings

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>For every one person saying: "Uber is evil, don't use them" There are ten saying "Meh, its cheap and convenient." I guess there is actually an 11th person saying, awesome I can financially support this evil company in the short term and make a quick buck. I've been talking a lot about boycotts lately on HN to curb unwanted corporate behavior, in particular as it relates to a lot of the recent 1st Amendment issues an…

You can't wish away a tragedy of the commons. All you're doing is rewarding bad behavior.

As to your first point I don't disagree, but are you saying taking steps to organize boycotts is trying to wish away something?

I was thinking organizing boycotts would have been an affirmative step towards turning wishes into action. Therefore, could you explain how organizing boycotts to address (at least) bad corporate actors behavior would be rewarding bad behavior? Is that a any press is good press argument or am I missing something else?

Re: Uber, Mired in Corporate Scandals, Sees Uptick in Bookings

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>For every one person saying: "Uber is evil, don't use them" There are ten saying "Meh, its cheap and convenient." I guess there is actually an 11th person saying, awesome I can financially support this evil company in the short term and make a quick buck. I've been talking a lot about boycotts lately on HN to curb unwanted corporate behavior, in particular as it relates to a lot of the recent 1st Amendment issues an…

How is buying a company's stock "financially supporting" them?

Companies, and the people that run them, own a lot of that stock. By buying some, you're increasing the demand, and therefore the price, and therefore the amount of value owned by the company and its leadership.

Re: Uber, Mired in Corporate Scandals, Sees Uptick in Bookings

#66
post #29

Yup. And United's business was unmarred after the Chicago PD violently removed a raving doctor from a flight. No surprises here.

There is weird regulatory capture in these markets. Taxi cabs are universally bad. Black cars are better but have always been expensive and harder to use b/c of pre-booking.

Hotels/Motels offer dubious over-priced quality. They hide behind no-refund policies and maintain in general poor standards.

So I support airBnb, uber, and lyft b/c I'm tired of being ripped off.

Re: Uber, Mired in Corporate Scandals, Sees Uptick in Bookings

#67
post #8
post #4

In Victorian times, people didn't mind paying more for a shirt if it meant it was child labor free. These days, nobody cares if a company is a hotbed of discrimination and shitty practices if it means cheaper rides and an easy to use app. Same goes for Facebook, Google, Amazon - nobody cares.

None of my friends/family outside tech have any idea of what is/has been going on inside Uber. A bit unfair to say "they don't care".

Everyone that I've told still doesn't care.

Re: Uber, Mired in Corporate Scandals, Sees Uptick in Bookings

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So true. Most people just don't care. I've used this to my advantage over the past few years, as soon as a "big corporate scandal" breaks the stock tends to fall. Check their financials, buy the stock if it looks good, then wait a few months for it to all blow over. My most recent was Wells Fargo during their opening accounts scandal. Bought early Oct, Sold late Jan. 20.06% profit. There were so many headlines callin…

>For every one person saying: "Uber is evil, don't use them" There are ten saying "Meh, its cheap and convenient." I guess there is actually an 11th person saying, awesome I can financially support this evil company in the short term and make a quick buck. I've been talking a lot about boycotts lately on HN to curb unwanted corporate behavior, in particular as it relates to a lot of the recent 1st Amendment issues an…

> I guess there is actually an 11th person saying, awesome I can financially support this evil company in the short term and make a quick buck.

Well, unless you belong to the minority of people on this forum with no assets in the stock market whatsoever (either directly or indirectly via a bank account, pension fund, etc), you are part of the system that profits off corporate activity. The only exception is if you traced your holdings in such companies (Wells Fargo is the example given here) and where they are getting used to within reasonable limits (some activity may not be disclosed to you as a member of the public for instance), and divested from all of them. A priori, I would find such a situation highly unlikely.

All that the grandparent commenter did was to allocate/deallocate to get a better return, and is honest about it as you point out. What more can one ask for or expect? Full divestment to within information limits as outlined above?

And as you point out, changing the system is super hard.

> And as disheartening as a comment likes yours is, it's truthful, and I personally find it motivating and inspiring. I guess it's sort of like telling someone something can't be done and that being the catalyst for action. I'm pretty motivated at this time to create an organizational platform for boycotts in a crowdsourcing-esq style without need for funding.

I am very happy to see people with energy for these sorts of things; feel free to email me to discuss more.

> If you don't mind, I guess like a sort of prelaunch feedback, what would it take for someone like you, willing to profit on bad corporate behavior, to instead become a leader for change?

I can give you mine:

1. I need enough savings to live on a "student budget" for the rest of my life in the United States. Until such an amount is reached, compromises will be made, such as what you term "finanically support this evil company in the short term and make a quick buck".

2. I do not wish to do this full time at any stage - there are other things in the world that interest me far more (chiefly scientific questions, usually from mathematics/applied mathematics). For example, if you provided a list of such-and-such companies engaged in such-and-such, and provided a summary of why you consider such a boycott worthy, I would evaluate it. Once upon a time I would have done the research myself; but I no longer have the energy and have a different set of priorities. On these lines, I have found http://www.givewell.org/ and more generally the "effective altruism" movement fantastic.

Re: Uber, Mired in Corporate Scandals, Sees Uptick in Bookings

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I created my HN account 2884 days ago and this comment is the first time in a long time I’ve felt this forum has had some serious conversations about the conflicts between ethics and profits. I am so glad to see people questioning the means leading to financial ends. Thank you for directly bringing the dynamics of how financial incentives are impacting the reality we live in into the conversation. I sorely hope the p…

Except Uber didn't do anything deserving of a boycott.

May be, but may be not. So I'll take a purely Florida example, in many counties Uber was operating illegally, to the extent they trained drivers how to evade police detection, in some instances they even recruited drivers out of counties that they were operating legally to counties they would be operating illegal (unbeknownst to drivers) resulting in the arrest of drivers (criminal records). In Miami Dade county for example, if you were to have been pulled over you would have gotten two civil tickets resulting in over $2,000 of fines, a third citation converts the charge to criminal charges, Uber would fire driver for not evading authorities effectively enough.

Uber also had a secret program that in part helped them break the law by denying rides to users suspected of working with law enforcement (called Greyball). Another issue is Uber provided a lawyer for drivers (not an actual traffic criminal lawyer, but a Uber lobbiest), in legal terms that is a conflict of interest, plus very few of these fines have been paid after years and last I checked Uber (drivers) still owe millions to the county.

Again I'm not saying this is a boycott I would pursue, but perhaps it's worthy of discussion, and at minimum I could see boycotts getting Uber to take responsibility and pay these fines.

Here is a link that includes a copy of the Uber email instructing drivers to more effectively break the law: https://uberpeople.net/threads/welcome-to-miami-internationa...

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