Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Water Found Deep Inside the Moon

news.nationalgeographic.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 284 posts

Re: Water Found Deep Inside the Moon

#51

Post by TomK32 »

zamalek wrote: post #39
andars wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In terms of distance, sure. In terms of delta-v, the budget for the moon is upwards of 50% that for Mars. EDIT: The 50% figure is from memory, and upon further reflection is probably not quite right, so take it with a grain of salt. I just wanted to point out that distance is not the only relevant metric.

It makes much more sense to use the moon as a stepping rock. At least my KSP experience has taught me that :)

Every experienced KSP player uses Minmus of course, not the Mun.

Re: Water Found Deep Inside the Moon

#52

Post by [deleted] »

athenot wrote: post #34
QAPereo wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inasmuch as Mars with our current technology offers no back up for civilization, the same can certainly be said for the moon. I would argue over that the moon actually has some benefits Mars lacks, in addition to proximity it has a much lesser gravitational field and therefore a much lower delta V. Moon colony could realistically jumpstart space and vacuum industries beyond LEO, and frankly it would probably give us…

When the topic of Backup for Civilization comes up, instead of Wall-E, I tend to think of Elysium, i.e. the backup option is only for the wealthy, leaving the rest in a worse state. https://www.space.com/22287-elysium-space-station-science-na...

[deleted]

Re: Water Found Deep Inside the Moon

#53

Post by quotha »

adekok wrote: post #27
tambourine_man wrote: post #7

I've always been more excited about a Moon colony than a Mars one. I mean, compared to Mars, the Moon is ridiculously close. Many of the same benefits Musk seeks (backup for Civilization, excitement) for a fraction of the cost. Low gravity and atmosphere on a dome would be more complicated, but again, compared to Mars, it's right there . It would be a more humble and realistic first step, IMO.

Mars is effectively a vacuum (for people purposes) anyways, just like the moon. And both are bone-dry, which means lots of static charges when you go outside. The main difference is that Mars has sufficient weather that the dust is roundish, whereas the moon dust is composed of extremely sharp shards. IMHO, if we can't make a go of it on the moon, we have no business going to Mars.

You know there is water on both right?

Re: Water Found Deep Inside the Moon

#54

Post by christophilus »

omellet wrote: post #31
bhnmmhmd wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although the Moon is much closer and "right there" for us, it's subject to numerous meteoric incidents, some of which are disastrous enough to wipe out any settlement we set up there. Moreover, only half of the Moon sees the light of the Sun. This fact alone reduces available surface for settlements to only half of the Moon. While the Moon could be a temporary backup plan, in the long-term, you're going to need to te…

It's tidally locked, so you couldn't you put the settlement on the Earth-facing side and not have to worry as much about meteors?

That seems to make sense, but if you look at the moon from Earth, you see an awful lot of craters...

Re: Water Found Deep Inside the Moon

#55

Post by pm90 »

jfolkins wrote: post #28
rothbardrand wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wouldn't really be relevant. For why, read The Moon is a Harsh Mistress. TLDR: The moon colony will be able to make its own rules and keep earth at bay.

One of my all time favorite books. I like how the power roles between the sexes on the moon are reversed too. The matriarch has all the power because women are scarce and they take on many husbands out of this need. They always hold the cards and culturally everyone accepts this. Also, because the value of women is so high no man ever dares attack one less they be sent out an airlock. It is cultural justice. No trial…

Many societies have historically been matriarchal. It just happened that Christianity, Islam (maybe Judaism? not sure...) were patriarchal and societies that embraces these religions came to dominate most of the other society/ peoples.

I do hope the future will be more "centrist", neither patriarchal nor matriarchal.

Re: Water Found Deep Inside the Moon

#56

Post by rory096 »

andars wrote: post #36
munificent wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People way underestimate how far away Mars is. To give you a sense of scale, the settlers of Jamestown came from London. As the crow flies, that's about 3,790 miles. If we treat that as equivalent to settling on Mars, then for them to settle on "the moon" would have been a mere 26 miles from London. Perhaps Canvey Island on the River Thames. If we can't manage settlements that close, we really aren't ready yet for th…

In terms of distance, sure. In terms of delta-v, the budget for the moon is upwards of 50% that for Mars. EDIT: The 50% figure is from memory, and upon further reflection is probably not quite right, so take it with a grain of salt. I just wanted to point out that distance is not the only relevant metric.

>The 50% figure is from memory, and upon further reflection is probably not quite right, so take it with a grain of salt.

You're actually underestimating. Mars has an atmosphere, so spacecraft can use aerobraking to significantly reduce the delta-v required to get there. The moon has no such benefit — propulsion is required all the way to the surface.

The advantage of the moon, of course, is that it's not limited to transfer windows every two years. If there's an emergency or resupply is needed (or you just want to expand the mission), another lander can be sent at any time. (With some restrictions, like hitting your desired landing spot and making sure the sun wasn't in the Apollo crews' eyes at landing. But regardless, no longer than 28 days between windows.)

Re: Water Found Deep Inside the Moon

#57

Post by QAPereo »

athenot wrote: post #34
QAPereo wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inasmuch as Mars with our current technology offers no back up for civilization, the same can certainly be said for the moon. I would argue over that the moon actually has some benefits Mars lacks, in addition to proximity it has a much lesser gravitational field and therefore a much lower delta V. Moon colony could realistically jumpstart space and vacuum industries beyond LEO, and frankly it would probably give us…

When the topic of Backup for Civilization comes up, instead of Wall-E, I tend to think of Elysium, i.e. the backup option is only for the wealthy, leaving the rest in a worse state. https://www.space.com/22287-elysium-space-station-science-na...

At this point, no amount of money will save you, we need Earth for food at the very least. That may change, but not soon.

Re: Water Found Deep Inside the Moon

#58

Post by david-cako »

kin wrote: post #2

Unrelated to the article, but WOW did anyone else see the giant full view height ad video at the top? I have ad blocker off for NatGeo. It's followed by a giant banner. I can't imagine how much crazier ads have been getting and most of us don't even notice 'cause we have ad blocker.

I don't know, I distinctly remember in the late 2000s there being all these insane "take over the entire page" flash ads for cars on sites like New York Times.

Re: Water Found Deep Inside the Moon

#59

Post by tambourine_man »

bhnmmhmd wrote: post #30
tambourine_man wrote: post #7

I've always been more excited about a Moon colony than a Mars one. I mean, compared to Mars, the Moon is ridiculously close. Many of the same benefits Musk seeks (backup for Civilization, excitement) for a fraction of the cost. Low gravity and atmosphere on a dome would be more complicated, but again, compared to Mars, it's right there . It would be a more humble and realistic first step, IMO.

Although the Moon is much closer and "right there" for us, it's subject to numerous meteoric incidents, some of which are disastrous enough to wipe out any settlement we set up there. Moreover, only half of the Moon sees the light of the Sun. This fact alone reduces available surface for settlements to only half of the Moon. While the Moon could be a temporary backup plan, in the long-term, you're going to need to te…

As others have said, a Moon's day lasts about an Earth's month.

There's hope for light most of the year at the poles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_of_eternal_light

I used to fantasize about exploiting the temperature gradient between hemispheres for generating electricity on worlds with long days like Mercury and the Moon when I was a kid.

Re: Water Found Deep Inside the Moon

#60

Post by bluGill »

jfolkins wrote: post #28
rothbardrand wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wouldn't really be relevant. For why, read The Moon is a Harsh Mistress. TLDR: The moon colony will be able to make its own rules and keep earth at bay.

One of my all time favorite books. I like how the power roles between the sexes on the moon are reversed too. The matriarch has all the power because women are scarce and they take on many husbands out of this need. They always hold the cards and culturally everyone accepts this. Also, because the value of women is so high no man ever dares attack one less they be sent out an airlock. It is cultural justice. No trial…

The American west was once very lopsided as well, males became cowboys and the women rarely traveled west. In one generation the few women out west had equal numbers of both gender kids and now that history is not important to the culture.

The book is interesting, but it was written for a society that doesn't exist. Women and men will not be as lopsided in a colony. The first few ships might be mostly male construction workers, but after that expect to see a much closer balance.

Post reply on HN