Live data from Hacker News

Blacks and Hispanics Are More Underrepresented at Top Colleges Than 35 Years Ago

nytimes.com

21–30 of 94 posts

Re: Blacks and Hispanics Are More Underrepresented at Top Colleges Than 35 Years Ago

#21
post #3

More like "because of Affirmative Action". Just treat people as fairly as possible. The other way doesn't work.

What other way? The one where some people have enormous structural disadvantages due to decades or more of discrimination? We agree it doesn't work, but many people get angry and defensive when we try and create systems that are fair enough to take this into account, like affirmative action policies.

Because you can't fight bias with more bias, it's hypocritical.

Re: Blacks and Hispanics Are More Underrepresented at Top Colleges Than 35 Years Ago

#22
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the alternative that we play poker and after every N rounds the chips are redistributed so that everyone has the same amount? At what point(s) should redistribution happen? At what point(s) should it stop to allow better decision making?

There's your problem: you assume that redistributing every n rounds means that decision making suffers.

I grant you that this example is contrived, but I'd play poker very differently if that was the case!

Re: Blacks and Hispanics Are More Underrepresented at Top Colleges Than 35 Years Ago

#23
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just treat people as fairly as possible. Wow, man, you just like, solved racism and discrimination.

Discrimination can't be "solved" because 1. People are genetically different and 2. Anyone can have biases about anything. I could shut down every interviewee with big ears, or beady eyes, if I wanted to. Again, all you can do is treat people as fairly as possible by basing admissions policies on merit and standardization, rather than sloppily basing them on perceived group identity.

> Again, all you can do is treat people as fairly as possible by basing admissions policies on merit and standardization, rather than sloppily basing them on perceived group identity.

Another ground breaking discovery! Everyone has equal opportunity in this world. Poverty, discrimination and access to quality education are completely fictional. Keep these thoughts coming man, I'm writing you up for the Noble Prize.

Re: Blacks and Hispanics Are More Underrepresented at Top Colleges Than 35 Years Ago

#25
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just treat people as fairly as possible. Wow, man, you just like, solved racism and discrimination.

Discrimination can't be "solved" because 1. People are genetically different and 2. Anyone can have biases about anything. I could shut down every interviewee with big ears, or beady eyes, if I wanted to. Again, all you can do is treat people as fairly as possible by basing admissions policies on merit and standardization, rather than sloppily basing them on perceived group identity.

Why can't we prioritize overhauling systematic oppression by calling attention to it and occasionally giving advantages to people who have historically been disadvantaged?

Re: Blacks and Hispanics Are More Underrepresented at Top Colleges Than 35 Years Ago

#26
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So give everyone the same number of chips; don't compensate by changing the rules so that a black straight beats a white flush.

Now translate "chips" into "systemic and generational advantages" and include detail on how to give everyone the same number.

Childcare, subsidized/free tutoring, mentoring, etc. I'm on board with practically anything other than lowering the admission bar.

Edit: admission to good public schools based on standardized tests instead of family real estate would be a good start

Re: Blacks and Hispanics Are More Underrepresented at Top Colleges Than 35 Years Ago

#28
post #12
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're going to play poker. Everyone will start with a randomly determined number of chips. But people whose HN handles start with A-H will get, on average, 40% less to start with. Aside from that tiny nit, it'll be a totally fair game.

Is the alternative that we play poker and after every N rounds the chips are redistributed so that everyone has the same amount? At what point(s) should redistribution happen? At what point(s) should it stop to allow better decision making?

At the point when you realize that the original distribution is out of line with your current moral and ethical values.

Re: Blacks and Hispanics Are More Underrepresented at Top Colleges Than 35 Years Ago

#29
post #4
post #3

More like "because of Affirmative Action". Just treat people as fairly as possible. The other way doesn't work.

We're going to play poker. Everyone will start with a randomly determined number of chips. But people whose HN handles start with A-H will get, on average, 40% less to start with. Aside from that tiny nit, it'll be a totally fair game.

Every individual black/Hispanic person is born with exactly 40% less wealth than every white/Asian person? It's time to re-evaluate your life choices when you think it's a good thing to promote blanket race-baiting stereotypes.

Re: Blacks and Hispanics Are More Underrepresented at Top Colleges Than 35 Years Ago

#30
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Discrimination can't be "solved" because 1. People are genetically different and 2. Anyone can have biases about anything. I could shut down every interviewee with big ears, or beady eyes, if I wanted to. Again, all you can do is treat people as fairly as possible by basing admissions policies on merit and standardization, rather than sloppily basing them on perceived group identity.

> Again, all you can do is treat people as fairly as possible by basing admissions policies on merit and standardization, rather than sloppily basing them on perceived group identity. Another ground breaking discovery! Everyone has equal opportunity in this world. Poverty, discrimination and access to quality education are completely fictional. Keep these thoughts coming man, I'm writing you up for the Noble Prize.

There is a lot of angst in your reply, but no alternatives to what the OP is proposing.
Post reply on HN