Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Right to Privacy a Fundamental Right, Says Indian Supreme Court

thewire.in

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 215 posts

Re: Right to Privacy a Fundamental Right, Says Indian Supreme Court

#151

Post by wtmt »

programmer_dude wrote: post #147
satbyy wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. He means that govt cannot force every citizen to undergo iris scan etc. for obtaining Aadhar card. I would like to get Aadhar without iris scan (and am willing to let go of secondary benefits like LPG subssidy etc). Such an option doesn't exist as of today. I , as an individual , will exercise my right to privacy by deciding whether to give my biometrics or not. Govt should not decide on my behalf.

An Aadhar card is just an identity document. You don't have to get one if you don't want any benefits linked to it. Just use some other ID.

Having a bank account from a non-government entity is not a benefit provided by the government. Yet, the government has issued notifications to link all bank accounts with Aadhaar or have the accounts indefinitely suspended.

Having a mobile number from a non-government entity is not a benefit provided by the government. Yet, the government's Department of Telecom (DoT) issued a notification asking all telcos to verify their subscribers using Aadhaar.

There are many other cases where the government has blatantly violated the Supreme Court orders that Aadhaar shall remain voluntary and that nobody shall be denied a benefit for want of having it.

Re: Right to Privacy a Fundamental Right, Says Indian Supreme Court

#152

Post by wtmt »

sn41 wrote: post #111
vkrm wrote: post #11

I'll wait for the full text of the judgements before celebrating. The ruling apparently consists of 6 judgements and should be available shortly. Hope this reins in the Aadhaar monster without leaving any wiggle room for the government to exploit. edit: The judgement is now available here: http://supremecourtofindia.nic.in/pdf/LU/ALL%20WP(C)%20No.49...

What a fantastic document. Quotes from John Stuart Mill, precedents from India, UK, US, South Africa, Canada, and the European charter. Looks like a very scholarly judgment, worthy of study, worth every one of the 597 pages!!

I've read only a few parts of the judgment, but it reads like poetry while at the same time being crisp and powerful! Even when the hearings were on, there were many references and discussions that showed the broad scope of accepting and considering jurisprudence from elsewhere and seeing what would benefit people.

That this was an unanimous verdict makes it even better. I was apprehensive until today morning, and after hearing the verdict, I've been ecstatic!

Re: Right to Privacy a Fundamental Right, Says Indian Supreme Court

#153

Post by programmer_dude »

wtmt wrote: post #151
programmer_dude wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An Aadhar card is just an identity document. You don't have to get one if you don't want any benefits linked to it. Just use some other ID.

Having a bank account from a non-government entity is not a benefit provided by the government. Yet, the government has issued notifications to link all bank accounts with Aadhaar or have the accounts indefinitely suspended. Having a mobile number from a non-government entity is not a benefit provided by the government. Yet, the government's Department of Telecom (DoT) issued a notification asking all telcos to verif…

And I agree with you this is overreaching and people must oppose this. Watering down the requirements for Aadhar is not a good solution.

Re: Right to Privacy a Fundamental Right, Says Indian Supreme Court

#154

Post by programmer_dude »

satbyy wrote: post #150
programmer_dude wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An Aadhar card is just an identity document. You don't have to get one if you don't want any benefits linked to it. Just use some other ID.

There are already "benefit" cards like LPG card, ration card, BPL card, etc to get those benefits. Why bother with Aadhar then? The answer is, consolidation. Aadhar is meant to be the identity card. I don't want to carry big passport book, etc. wherever I go.

Yeah I agree and understand what you are saying but this does not contradict what I said earlier in any way.

Re: Right to Privacy a Fundamental Right, Says Indian Supreme Court

#155

Post by wtmt »

moh_maya wrote: post #137
srinathrajaram wrote: post #7

It says a lot about where we are headed that the Supreme Court had to say this.

I think this is needless alarmism. I am glad due process was followed, and what was previously a grey area has now been made clear. You must read the judgement & the cases they cite before making such blanket, unsubstantiated assertions. There's been a history of cases that this judgement rests on, many of which guided & led to the conclusions drawn by this 9 panel of judges. [1] I don't understand what value a blank…

When considering the fact it took close to two years to even constitute a bench to hear this case, it doesn't really sound alarmist to me. Plus, many Aadhaar related cases have been pending hearing for years now while the government blatantly ignored multiple directives from the Supreme Court to keep it optional and not deprive anyone of any benefit "until the matter is decided one way or another" (paraphrasing what the court said).

Aadhaar could still be a fait accompli for the government and continue, which would be sad in many ways. If you believe Aadhaar is the best thing since sliced bread and has no issues, please check Rethink Aadhaar [1] for the issues as well as the history of the cases and have a look at Scroll's Identity Project. [2]

[1]: https://rethinkaadhaar.in

[2]: https://scroll.in/topic/38792/identity-project

Re: Right to Privacy a Fundamental Right, Says Indian Supreme Court

#156

Post by wtmt »

arc_of_descent wrote: post #31

I'm not sure what this has to do with Aadhaar, although the initial petition mentions it I think. Aadhaar is setup as a way of proof of identity and not proof of citizenship. I for one did not get an Aadhaar until a week ago! The only reason I had to was a company that I applied to, said that please use your full name as mentioned on your Aadhaar card. India is a bureaucratic mess. And as UG Krishnamurti put it very…

> Aadhaar is setup as a way of proof of identity and not proof of citizenship.

Yet, Aadhaar is officially accepted by the Ministry of External Affairs as proof of identity and proof of address to issue a passport (which is signed by the president of India and is a proof of citizenship). [1] So any resident in India who qualifies for Aadhaar can also get a passport. Aadhaar is sneaky and messy in more ways than one.

[1]: http://passportindia.gov.in/AppOnlineProject/docAdvisor/atta...

Re: Right to Privacy a Fundamental Right, Says Indian Supreme Court

#157

Post by helloindia »

satbyy wrote: post #150
programmer_dude wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An Aadhar card is just an identity document. You don't have to get one if you don't want any benefits linked to it. Just use some other ID.

There are already "benefit" cards like LPG card, ration card, BPL card, etc to get those benefits. Why bother with Aadhar then? The answer is, consolidation. Aadhar is meant to be the identity card. I don't want to carry big passport book, etc. wherever I go.

PAN card and Drivers license already works, bank passbook all works as identitification document. You don't need passport for that.

Re: Right to Privacy a Fundamental Right, Says Indian Supreme Court

#158

Post by carradjm »

coldtea wrote: post #93
dalbasal wrote: post #54

A lot of conversations about expanding rights, end up with a distinction between positive and negative rights. A right to water, is different to free speech. For everyone to have a right to water, someone needs to provide the water or be held accountable for not providing it. A default, state culprit needs to be designated. Privacy though, privacy is like speech or equality before the law or presumption of innocence.…

> The right to free speech, conscience, affiliation , assembly and other political freedoms mean we need to tolerate and protect the proverbial nazis’ rights to try and spread their politics. Bitter pill for anyone scared of a proverbial nazi takeover. Nazi's are an easy target. The problem starts when things are not as clean cut -- when actual politics are involved, as opposed to crude stuff like "exterminate all je…

They absolutely should be able to express their ideas, as long as they do so in a peaceful and non-threatening way.

Re: Right to Privacy a Fundamental Right, Says Indian Supreme Court

#159

Post by matt4077 »

sametmax wrote: post #136
matt4077 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If freedom of speech is important, speech must have the power to have real consequences. If something has real consequences, those can be either bad, good, or neutral. If all consequences of speech were neutral or positive, we could make the world a better place by connecting a source of randomness with a text-to-speech synthesiser. But that's absurd. Therefore, speech has the ability to harm. The distinction between…

No, harassment is the action of repeatedly crafting then using deliberately harmful speech toward a specific target. It's not about the speech at all. The speech can change. The combination of repetition, intention of harm, and specific target can not. And you speak about consequences, but those consequences are the one that should be punished. Because you can assess consequences. You can evaluate damages. You can't…

> deliberately harmful speech

So there is harmful speech. Thanks.

> Otherwise South park / Rick and Morty could not exist.

South Park is freely shown on TV stations in basically any country that has enough of an audience to make economic sense. Every single one of those countries has more restrictive laws regarding hate speech, yet they also seem to have the capability to distinguish between a TV show and and armed mob with swastikas.

Re: Right to Privacy a Fundamental Right, Says Indian Supreme Court

#160

Post by BearGoesChirp »

wtmt wrote: post #151
programmer_dude wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An Aadhar card is just an identity document. You don't have to get one if you don't want any benefits linked to it. Just use some other ID.

Having a bank account from a non-government entity is not a benefit provided by the government. Yet, the government has issued notifications to link all bank accounts with Aadhaar or have the accounts indefinitely suspended. Having a mobile number from a non-government entity is not a benefit provided by the government. Yet, the government's Department of Telecom (DoT) issued a notification asking all telcos to verif…

Is this like the US and the SSN, which was originally only meant for social security, but is now used for anything and everything and many systems require it if you want to do business at all, even though the business isn't related to social security at all?
Post reply on HN