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Universities are broke – let’s cut the pointless admin and get back to teaching

theguardian.com

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Re: Universities are broke – let’s cut the pointless admin and get back to teaching

#231

Post by rhodysurf »

ams6110 wrote: post #86
lutorm wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this article ( https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2016/03/the-ma... ) is any guide, the money made by the athletic department mostly goes to the athletic department and not to funding anything else useful.

I would agree, but dispute the claim that athletic scholarships are not "useful." Most collegiate athletes do not progress to professional careers in their sport. Their education (at least in theory) prepares them to be contributors to society after they graduate. Athletics is an "auxilliary enterprise" at most educational institutions. It's self-funding, thanks to alumni donations and a few high-revenue sports (bask…

Right, in RHode Island the highest paid state employee is the URI basketball coach. However, only like 3 percent or something is actually paid by the state.

Re: Universities are broke – let’s cut the pointless admin and get back to teaching

#232

Post by HarryHirsch »

exhilaration wrote: post #230
HarryHirsch wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When there's disconnect between the happytalk of the university and the employability/performance of students the students will blame themselves for not working hard enough. They will not blame the university for having an outdated curriculum or incompetent faculty. My institution offers a seven-year combined BS/MD program. Graduate on time, get an MCAT score above the national mean and a decent GPA, and after 3 year…

Automatic medical school admission? Can you tell me what this institution is or where I could find a list of universities with similar programs?

You just ask Google for things like "seven-year bs/md program" or "seven-year program". It's interesting to see that Google's autocomplete offers up suggestions like "seven-year program ranking". It makes sense, they are becoming popular.

Re: Universities are broke – let’s cut the pointless admin and get back to teaching

#233

Post by kps »

rfdub wrote: post #29

I work in post secondary administration, so I think I have some perspective here. Part of the problem, at least in the US & Canada (Where I live) is that post secondary institutions are positioning themselves less and less and places to get an education and more and more as places to go for an "experience." Its no longer enough to provide a quality education, universities now are selling themselves on their facilitie…

I don't think that's it. Simultaneously, health care has seen the same massive growth of administration and shift of money away from the actual service (professors/physicians).

Re: Universities are broke – let’s cut the pointless admin and get back to teaching

#234

Post by mmcconnell1618 »

sevenfive wrote: post #187
meri_dian wrote: post #27

I work in the administration for a top public US research University. The increase in size of University administration and bureaucracy is due to a number of factors. One is certainly unnecessary employment and over-employment. Not only at high levels, with VP's, Assistant VP's, Assistant Vice VP's, Chancellors, Vice Chancellor's, Executive VP's, Directors of XYZ, etc, but also at low levels where the work done by 3…

University of Phoenix is a complete scam, FYI, not a good example here.

University of Phoenix is a profit driven entity. They started out as a vocational option for military veterans but in an environment where students loans ballooned, so did Phoenix. They focus on collecting as many students as possible, helping them get loans and promising them a college education. My wife taught for them for a short time and from what I saw, the students and the education was not at a college level.

Students would be better off going to a local community college for 2 years and then transferring to a state school to graduate. Tuition is lower, education is better.

The rapid growth of online degrees may bring competition to the market. Currently, many students choose in-state schools because it is a better value that moving somewhere else. Online allows schools anywhere to compete for those students and may start to drive prices down. Prestige will still be important for more elite universities but I suspect solid state schools may attract students by expanding online options.

Re: Universities are broke – let’s cut the pointless admin and get back to teaching

#235

Post by murph-almighty »

meri_dian wrote: post #27

I work in the administration for a top public US research University. The increase in size of University administration and bureaucracy is due to a number of factors. One is certainly unnecessary employment and over-employment. Not only at high levels, with VP's, Assistant VP's, Assistant Vice VP's, Chancellors, Vice Chancellor's, Executive VP's, Directors of XYZ, etc, but also at low levels where the work done by 3…

I feel like University of Phoenix, a for-profit university, is a bit unfair of a comparison to a not-for-profit university. Especially when a significant portion of for-profit universities aren't properly accredited, and actually represent a very significant portion of student loan obligations (see https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/09/the-fai...).

Re: Universities are broke – let’s cut the pointless admin and get back to teaching

#236

Post by gravypod »

mnm1 wrote: post #6

Yes. This is why I refuse to donate to my alma mater anymore. Tuition has nearly tripled in in fourteen years while they are still teaching the same number of students with roughly the same or fewer full time faculty. There's something seriously wrong with that and this is a huge symptom of it. Until they get their shit together, they need less money coming in, not more. This is supposed to be a nonprofit institution…

> donate to my alma mater

I've heard of people doing this but why would you ever have donated your money to someone you have already paid? I wouldn't donate to my pizza place, my doctor, or my barber. Why would a college be different?

Re: Universities are broke – let’s cut the pointless admin and get back to teaching

#238

Post by gravypod »

cousin_it wrote: post #227
jimbokun wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now that's a business model screaming for disruption.

When people talk about "disruption of education", they usually mean either online courses or boot camps. I think that's unfortunate. There are huge benefits to learning stuff the traditional way, by taking a class in person, on a schedule, with a curriculum and a teacher and an exam at the end. There are also huge benefits to hanging out with working scientists and picking up their enthusiasm. These are the important…

The only benefit I see is the piece of paper I'm going to get from the university at the end of my wild ride.

Re: Universities are broke – let’s cut the pointless admin and get back to teaching

#239

Post by ChrisBland »

gravypod wrote: post #236
mnm1 wrote: post #6

Yes. This is why I refuse to donate to my alma mater anymore. Tuition has nearly tripled in in fourteen years while they are still teaching the same number of students with roughly the same or fewer full time faculty. There's something seriously wrong with that and this is a huge symptom of it. Until they get their shit together, they need less money coming in, not more. This is supposed to be a nonprofit institution…

> donate to my alma mater I've heard of people doing this but why would you ever have donated your money to someone you have already paid? I wouldn't donate to my pizza place, my doctor, or my barber. Why would a college be different?

I donate to my university, I do it to fund scholarships and programs that I benefited from when attending. I don't donate to the 'general fund'. Although the bulk of my donations to my alma mater go to cancer treatment center at the university medical center which relies on fundraising for research and other programs which I believe will benefit all. I would never donate to revamp a student union as I believe that should be paid for by the University.

Re: Universities are broke – let’s cut the pointless admin and get back to teaching

#240

Post by nogbit »

Clubber wrote: post #216
wavefunction wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't believe folks would even accept a metric like "student:staff" rather than class-size. I would have no care about the ratio of myKid:janitor for example, no offense to janitors intended.

The one you are looking for is student/faculty ratio. They used to promote that until they realized they could puff up their ratio by including staff as well. Similar to the unemployment rate excluding people who can work but have stopped looking. SO much BS in the US.

Regarding academia, what countries do you suggest and why?
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