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Universities are broke – let’s cut the pointless admin and get back to teaching

theguardian.com

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Re: Universities are broke – let’s cut the pointless admin and get back to teaching

#221

Post by 3131s »

mnm1 wrote: post #189
learc83 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are you seeing tuition of $20k or $50k? Public universities in state are closer to $10k a year, even out of state isn't usually anywhere near $50k.

My alma mater, a northeast, private university ranked in the top 50. It was actually ranked higher when I was there and cost $20k. Now tuition alone is just shy of $50k.

Sounds familiar. I went to a highly ranked private college where tuition went from 35k in 2007, to about 50k only 4 years later, and now it's around 60k I believe. The professors were mostly excellent and well known in their fields, but at the same time many departments were understaffed while the university spent 42 million dollars on an "Institute for Global Citizenship" that ended up being mostly unused, though it is pretty:

https://img.apmcdn.org/c1675e4ec7a7aec84a32edbfe93999b018c70...

Re: Universities are broke – let’s cut the pointless admin and get back to teaching

#222

Post by Applejinx »

maxerickson wrote: post #37
zaphos wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article is about UK Universities. Stanford is not broke. http://facts.stanford.edu/administration/finances

It can still be the case that they are spending excessively on administrators. They can easily use any potential savings by adjusting the way their scholarships taper off versus income.

This assumes there is any benefit at all to them 'saving' in a situation where they're drowned in money specifically because they already have all the money and seek more from people who assume money is best spent by giving it to entities who already have the most money.

Sort of 'progress through increasing the highest possible score'. In this light, spending excessively on administrators and absurd things is a form of virtue signalling meant to elicit further gifts through demonstrating they are already wealthy beyond all imagining.

That's not a joke: that's actually how it works, and there are many parallels, for instance in the stock market.

Re: Universities are broke – let’s cut the pointless admin and get back to teaching

#223

Post by Applejinx »

slackstation wrote: post #16

The pointless admin is from services given to the students. Universities (that aren't household brand names like the Ivys) compete on services and facilities. And because most students are young and using other people's money (their parents or their future selves) they will choose schools not because they have the best deal educationally but, because they beautiful grounds, newer, swankier dorms and all of the social…

Yes. It's not unreasonable to cite this as an example of capitalism functioning normally. Competition produces extra money for institutions that are covering their core missions (one hopes) and also virtue signaling that they're super successful and wealthy.

You could call it greed, or simple self-interest: if the administrators have correctly perceived that the insanely wealthy will only make gifts to institutions plated in gold with peacock feathers, then their personal feelings about gold and peacock feathers are irrelevant: they can seduce the wealthy, or not, and they can win the gifts, or not.

Definitely worth study, and definitely an interesting study in perverse incentives. After a point, nothing is valued BUT gold and peacock feathers because they're so inextricably a part of doing business. And it's certainly not aimed at the students. It's aimed at the impossibly wealthy, who wish their gifts to be associated with institutions that are absurdly swanky for the students. What the students want doesn't have anything to do with it, it's purely for donors.

Re: Universities are broke – let’s cut the pointless admin and get back to teaching

#226

Post by TimPC »

meri_dian wrote: post #27

I work in the administration for a top public US research University. The increase in size of University administration and bureaucracy is due to a number of factors. One is certainly unnecessary employment and over-employment. Not only at high levels, with VP's, Assistant VP's, Assistant Vice VP's, Chancellors, Vice Chancellor's, Executive VP's, Directors of XYZ, etc, but also at low levels where the work done by 3…

The article recognizes this and mentions specific regulations to cut in order to reduce administration (at least for the UK).

Re: Universities are broke – let’s cut the pointless admin and get back to teaching

#227

Post by cousin_it »

jimbokun wrote: post #68
bluetwo wrote: post #36

As an adjunct professor running one class per year, I ran the calculation of: (Amount I'm paid per class / (students in class * cost per credit * credits for class) ) And found I'm paid about 10% of what the students pay for the experience of taking my class. I can't help wonder what happens to the rest of that money.

Now that's a business model screaming for disruption.

When people talk about "disruption of education", they usually mean either online courses or boot camps. I think that's unfortunate. There are huge benefits to learning stuff the traditional way, by taking a class in person, on a schedule, with a curriculum and a teacher and an exam at the end. There are also huge benefits to hanging out with working scientists and picking up their enthusiasm. These are the important things about attending a university, and they aren't even that difficult or expensive to set up! Can we get that kind of "disruption", please?

Re: Universities are broke – let’s cut the pointless admin and get back to teaching

#228

Post by PeachPlum »

My University, Huddersfield, isn't broke and is debt free to boot.

> In addition to the Creative Arts Building which opened in 2008, a new £17 million Business School opened in 2010, followed by the £3 million Buckley Innovation Centre in 2012, the £22.5 million Student Central building in 2014, and the £27.5 million Oastler Building for Law and the School of Music, Humanities and Media, in 2017. £5.5 million invested in University Campus Barnsley.

> The University now attracts students from more than 130 countries. With an annual turnover of approximately £150m each year, it estimates it is worth £300m annually to the local economy.

And yet there is rabble rousing concerning the Vice Chancellor's £337,000 salary

http://www.examiner.co.uk/news/west-yorkshire-news/universit...

Re: Universities are broke – let’s cut the pointless admin and get back to teaching

#229

Post by RugnirViking »

savanaly wrote: post #175
tqi wrote: post #162

"For instance, before introducing a new procedure they would need to eliminate an old one." If someone wrote a tech article suggesting that companies should require removal of a line of code for every new line introduced, do you think that article would make it to front page of HN?

For the analogy you're drawing to really hold, we have to picture a computer where the bytes get a lot of work done on their own and our code merely exists to slow down and redirect their efforts (in other words, a negative and a possible positive). If you were concerned with the fast, efficient operation of the computer then you might indeed want a rule like "one in, one out" for lines of code.

When space was limited in game cartridges in the past I can imagine such a rule actually existing in a real buisness setting.

One line of code in, one line of code out. That would lead to some really weird software, and it would take longer, but it would probably improve the software in some metrics like performance

Re: Universities are broke – let’s cut the pointless admin and get back to teaching

#230

Post by exhilaration »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #195
WalterBright wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gaming a magazine is one thing, but I'm not sure how schools are able to game google to hide "graduating" masses of unhappy, unqualified, and unemployable students.

When there's disconnect between the happytalk of the university and the employability/performance of students the students will blame themselves for not working hard enough. They will not blame the university for having an outdated curriculum or incompetent faculty. My institution offers a seven-year combined BS/MD program. Graduate on time, get an MCAT score above the national mean and a decent GPA, and after 3 year…

Automatic medical school admission? Can you tell me what this institution is or where I could find a list of universities with similar programs?
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