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Universities are broke – let’s cut the pointless admin and get back to teaching

theguardian.com

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Re: Universities are broke – let’s cut the pointless admin and get back to teaching

#171

Post by learc83 »

mnm1 wrote: post #116
barake wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is tuition actually going up by that much? Most schools raise prices to raise scholarships to raise rankings, leaving revenue virtually flat. There is a coordinated effort to temporarily exempt schools from antitrust rules so they can collectively coordinate a tuition drop, and stop the fake scholarship arms race.

Yes, tuition is actually going up by that much (20k vs 50k). Even inflation adjusted it's still almost double. Room and board has also almost tripled (5k vs 15k). At this rate, in fifteen years or so, I'd expect to pay 100k a year just in tuition or almost half a million per child. Luckily I have no kids, but if I do they're going to learn prefect German or other language that gets them free tuition in Europe. Fuck t…

Where are you seeing tuition of $20k or $50k? Public universities in state are closer to $10k a year, even out of state isn't usually anywhere near $50k.

Re: Universities are broke – let’s cut the pointless admin and get back to teaching

#172

Post by learc83 »

praxulus wrote: post #43
extrapickles wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When student loans were able to be discharged in bankruptcy, it was popular to declare bankruptcy on graduation. By the time they saved up enough for a down payment on a house, the bankruptcy will have fallen off the records, so effectively they got a free education (not the ideal mechanism for doing so, better to give people free education upfront). Maybe there is a middle ground where student debt is not easily dis…

All student loans should be subject to income-based repayment. They can still be very difficult/impossible to discharge in bankruptcy, but you shouldn't have to make significant payments on them unless you're actually making decent money.

All federal student loans work exactly like this, and Federal loans account for 90% of all loan disbursements.

Re: Universities are broke – let’s cut the pointless admin and get back to teaching

#173

Post by learc83 »

tybit wrote: post #62
praxulus wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All student loans should be subject to income-based repayment. They can still be very difficult/impossible to discharge in bankruptcy, but you shouldn't have to make significant payments on them unless you're actually making decent money.

This is how it works in Australia and it works very well IMO. It also indexes with inflation so that there isn't a major stress if you graduate with a low paying job and work your way up to a higher salary. This does mean its everyone's lowest priority to pay off, but you can't reasonably avoid paying it other than not making an income.

It works exactly like this in the US. People who aren't currently in college just aren't aware of it.

Re: Universities are broke – let’s cut the pointless admin and get back to teaching

#174

Post by UncleMeat »

ams6110 wrote: post #80
greglindahl wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, who needs the Library and Archives? The book conservation lab is one of the things in the RWC location, that's clearly overhead that's totally not needed! Buckminster Fuller's models? Let 'em molder.

Today, a library fits on a hard drive.

I think you clearly have not been to a research university library. There is a huge amount of old stuff that is not digitized and has important content that cannot be digitized.

Re: Universities are broke – let’s cut the pointless admin and get back to teaching

#175

Post by savanaly »

tqi wrote: post #162

"For instance, before introducing a new procedure they would need to eliminate an old one." If someone wrote a tech article suggesting that companies should require removal of a line of code for every new line introduced, do you think that article would make it to front page of HN?

For the analogy you're drawing to really hold, we have to picture a computer where the bytes get a lot of work done on their own and our code merely exists to slow down and redirect their efforts (in other words, a negative and a possible positive). If you were concerned with the fast, efficient operation of the computer then you might indeed want a rule like "one in, one out" for lines of code.

Re: Universities are broke – let’s cut the pointless admin and get back to teaching

#176

Post by Animats »

nolta wrote: post #123
Animats wrote: post #17

Stanford is building a new "campus" in Redwood City. 35 acres. 2,700 people on site. None are students. None are faculty. No teaching or research will occur there. It's all administrators .[1] "School of Medicine administration; Stanford Libraries and University Archives; the major administrative units of Business Affairs; Land, Buildings and Real Estate; University Human Resources; Residential & Dining Enterprises;…

So they're building Ark B? This video overview of the project is dangerously close to parody: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKY0QdSElgc Featuring the: * Managing Director, Development * Vice President of Public Affairs * Vice President Business Affairs and Chief Financial Officer * University Architect and Executive Director, Campus Planning & Design * Director, Architecture * Assistant Vice President for Business…

I hadn't seen that video. That's over the top. The administrators are building themselves an administrative paradise.

This isn't even the entire Stanford administration. There's also the academic administration (deans and such), the Stanford Management Company (the investment operation, established 1991), and Athletic Administration. Those remain on the main campus.

It was in the 1990s that the administrators really took over. As an alum, this is embarrassing. But Stanford no longer has a real alumni association which could pressure the administration. The alumni association was acquired by Stanford's development department in 1998 so they could focus on their core mission of extracting money from alumni.

Re: Universities are broke – let’s cut the pointless admin and get back to teaching

#177

Post by Chathamization »

rfdub wrote: post #29

I work in post secondary administration, so I think I have some perspective here. Part of the problem, at least in the US & Canada (Where I live) is that post secondary institutions are positioning themselves less and less and places to get an education and more and more as places to go for an "experience." Its no longer enough to provide a quality education, universities now are selling themselves on their facilitie…

Yep; this is the same problem people talk about when they talk about bundling. Not interested in a gym membership? It doesn't matter, your tuition is still going to go to subsidize the gym at the university.

It's also worth pointing out how colleges end up benefiting from having captive customers. It's usually more difficult for a 17-18 year old to rent a place off campus and commute, and many schools even have policies against that. And a social environment is encouraged in dorms and dining halls, so students who aren't buying stuff from the "company store" end up at a loss. Whether or not the school is good at managing housing and food is often immaterial.

Re: Universities are broke – let’s cut the pointless admin and get back to teaching

#178

Post by sweep4r »

mnm1 wrote: post #116
barake wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is tuition actually going up by that much? Most schools raise prices to raise scholarships to raise rankings, leaving revenue virtually flat. There is a coordinated effort to temporarily exempt schools from antitrust rules so they can collectively coordinate a tuition drop, and stop the fake scholarship arms race.

Yes, tuition is actually going up by that much (20k vs 50k). Even inflation adjusted it's still almost double. Room and board has also almost tripled (5k vs 15k). At this rate, in fifteen years or so, I'd expect to pay 100k a year just in tuition or almost half a million per child. Luckily I have no kids, but if I do they're going to learn prefect German or other language that gets them free tuition in Europe. Fuck t…

Spaniard here. I pay around 750€ a year. If I can prove I don't make much money, not only I don't have to pay, they'll also pay part of (or the entirety of) my rent, food, etc.

100k a year is just, wow.

Re: Universities are broke – let’s cut the pointless admin and get back to teaching

#179

Post by WalterBright »

vacri wrote: post #160
ChicagoBoy11 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Loved everything you said except the part about market dynamics being the culprit. I think you correctly identify the widespread availability of student loans as a key factor driving this bloat; but there's nothing "market-based" about them. In a market, interest rates would vary according to the risk of the loan. Bad schools which don't teach and don't actually improve student outcomes and simply spend on other thin…

> Students who now go to schools who do nothing for them and have no chance of paying their loans -- or spend most of their adult life trying to -- would be dissuaded from making that incorrect financial choice. The feedback loop for that is incredibly slow and incomplete. University reputations move on the order of decades, and only a handful of universities enter the public consciousness by way of reputation. Most…

I'm baffled by adults that grew up with computers yet seem to be unable to google a school for their reputation and the job prospects for graduates.

Back in my day, pre-internet, every high school guidance counselor had catalogs that compared schools, so did public libraries, and magazines like US News & World Report would annually publish rankings.

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