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Universities are broke – let’s cut the pointless admin and get back to teaching

theguardian.com

141–150 of 296 posts

Re: Universities are broke – let’s cut the pointless admin and get back to teaching

#141
post #129
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Today, a library fits on a hard drive.

Yes, but university libraries also do a whole lot more than just manage books. The library at the University I work for has computer labs, GIS labs, a makerspace, 3D printing, electronics fabrication, photography and video studios, plus a hundred other things. All of those take staff.

FWIW, that's not what most people mean by the term "library".

Re: Universities are broke – let’s cut the pointless admin and get back to teaching

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, it is unique in that cost is no barrier to receiving an education at Stanford.

No, it isn’t unique. Many elite/expensive schools offer either free or heavily discounted tuition for lower and middle income students. http://nordic.businessinsider.com/how-ivy-league-financial-a...

The point I was making is that the cost of an education is uncoupled (at elite universities) from the ability to afford it.

It may be hopelessly optimistic, but I think that eventually, tuition will and should be eliminated for everyone.. As it stands now, where students from wealthier families pay more, it is a good consolation prize.

Re: Universities are broke – let’s cut the pointless admin and get back to teaching

#143

I work in the administration for a top public US research University. The increase in size of University administration and bureaucracy is due to a number of factors. One is certainly unnecessary employment and over-employment. Not only at high levels, with VP's, Assistant VP's, Assistant Vice VP's, Chancellors, Vice Chancellor's, Executive VP's, Directors of XYZ, etc, but also at low levels where the work done by 3…

> Universities fear that if they were to stamp their feet and refuse to supply these amenities in the name of keeping down tuition, matriculation rates would decline as students would seek greener pastures elsewhere.

I find this so fascinating. In a normal market, demand is driven by differentiating factors, and I imagine paying for a reduced set of services could be wildly popular. I certainly never took advantage of most of the services I paid for in college—I was too busy with school.

Meanwhile, schools appear to be in the race for positioning schools as anything but a place to get a degree.... which is the entire role of college in society today.

I would quit my job and finish my degree tomorrow if there was a "no bullshit, we'll just get you your degree as fast as possible" option. But all I see are residency requirements, tuition that appears to be at least an order of magnitude more than what my professors cumulatively make from teaching me, etc etc. Very disheartening to someone who loves the culture of academia.

And don't forget, they STILL make you buy textbooks and allow the profs to pocket the profits.

Re: Universities are broke – let’s cut the pointless admin and get back to teaching

#144

I work in the administration for a top public US research University. The increase in size of University administration and bureaucracy is due to a number of factors. One is certainly unnecessary employment and over-employment. Not only at high levels, with VP's, Assistant VP's, Assistant Vice VP's, Chancellors, Vice Chancellor's, Executive VP's, Directors of XYZ, etc, but also at low levels where the work done by 3…

Having also worked in higher ed for quite a long time (I've been out since 2004) I always quipped that young people really just want "lifestyle camps" or "lifestyle towns" where they can have the experience they want without all the pesky classes and studying getting in the way. Go there for a couple years, party down, then maybe move on in life. It would save a lot of people a lot of hardship and pain.

Re: Universities are broke – let’s cut the pointless admin and get back to teaching

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When your core business is teaching, you have more admin than teachers AND your teachers still have spend a lion share of their time doing admin work, I think it's safe to say you some of those 2700 administrators are unneeded and possibly a hindrance.

Ah, but you are assuming Stanford's core business is, in fact, teaching.

You got me there buddy.

Re: Universities are broke – let’s cut the pointless admin and get back to teaching

#146
post #29

I work in post secondary administration, so I think I have some perspective here. Part of the problem, at least in the US & Canada (Where I live) is that post secondary institutions are positioning themselves less and less and places to get an education and more and more as places to go for an "experience." Its no longer enough to provide a quality education, universities now are selling themselves on their facilitie…

I think there's somewhat of a vicious cycle at work. Someone paying $50k/yr. wants more than classes in a run down building, and then a threadbare dorm to sleep in. That's a ton of money, and I don't think it's ridiculous for people to expect a pretty darned nice experience (inside and outside the classroom for that). But of course, providing those facilities and experiences costs a lot, so tuition increases. And wit…

So you don't think the financialization of higher education has played a significant role?

Re: Universities are broke – let’s cut the pointless admin and get back to teaching

#147
post #36

As an adjunct professor running one class per year, I ran the calculation of: (Amount I'm paid per class / (students in class * cost per credit * credits for class) ) And found I'm paid about 10% of what the students pay for the experience of taking my class. I can't help wonder what happens to the rest of that money.

Look at how much gets taken out of a grant for "overhead," too! Stunning.

Re: Universities are broke – let’s cut the pointless admin and get back to teaching

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For you to make that argument, you must first make the case that 2,700 actually constitutes bloat. Who exactly would you say is expendable and why? (Not getting down to brass tacks is the great weakness in the article too, I think. The author seems to have an idea that these expendable positions can simply be identified by filtering out anyone who can't explain what they do in non-jargon terms, or asking the surplus…

When your core business is teaching, you have more admin than teachers AND your teachers still have spend a lion share of their time doing admin work, I think it's safe to say you some of those 2700 administrators are unneeded and possibly a hindrance.

If you're only trying to make the point that some of any group of 2,700 employees are unneeded and possibly a hindrance, that's a given.

BTW, Stanford has professional schools and a hospital, and is a research university, all of which are activities that don't behave like educating undergraduates.

I'm not really here to defend Stanford, I'm just pointing out that the criticisms in this sub-thread are all hand-wavy.

Re: Universities are broke – let’s cut the pointless admin and get back to teaching

#149

I work in the administration for a top public US research University. The increase in size of University administration and bureaucracy is due to a number of factors. One is certainly unnecessary employment and over-employment. Not only at high levels, with VP's, Assistant VP's, Assistant Vice VP's, Chancellors, Vice Chancellor's, Executive VP's, Directors of XYZ, etc, but also at low levels where the work done by 3…

> Universities fear that if they were to stamp their feet and refuse to supply these amenities in the name of keeping down tuition, matriculation rates would decline as students would seek greener pastures elsewhere. I find this so fascinating. In a normal market, demand is driven by differentiating factors, and I imagine paying for a reduced set of services could be wildly popular. I certainly never took advantage o…

I think the reason is that customers interested in "no bullshit" (<=middle class) are not bringing the bulk of the cash. Nearly every community college I have seen fits your description very well. Public universities have a goal to get people that are wealthier and will donate.

Re: Universities are broke – let’s cut the pointless admin and get back to teaching

#150

I have actually had an idea related to the sort of debt had to be taken by American university students for their academics. Why not use a mixture of blended learning and Coursera, where students pay not just professors but also industry folk for cutting-edge knowledge but also open up a marketplace for Youtube tutorial people to do physical workshops in their cities that can be charged and move onto a sort of Airbnb…

One of the most underrated aspects of getting a degree from one of the top universities is the prestige and network that comes alongside the education. Depending on your field of study, those "extras" can be more important than the education itself (i.e. in finance) Perhaps the purely academic aspect of universities can be replicated using YouTube tutorials but unfortunately, a self-thought person won't have the same…

Good Point and one a lot of people forget.

Technical people starting on their career path can overcome some of this by contributing to open source projects for example and the on-line networks they make.

I have had several job inquiries relating to open source work I contributed so it does work.

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