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Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air

#61

Post by gwbas1c »

2OEH8eoCRo wrote: post #56
hood_syntax wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's probably safer to assume that we're pretty much screwed at keeping the status quo and we need to start researching ways for humanity to survive the resulting changes. Of course, we should still keep ongoing efforts to curb and eventually eliminate the emission of greenhouse gases in effect, but we're past the point of pretending the worst case isn't possible.

We need to invent fusion like yesterday and use that to power efforts to extract CO2 from the atmosphere.

We can just use Fusion to drop a giant ice cube in the Arctic, just like in Futurama.

Re: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air

#62

Post by Florin_Andrei »

zitterbewegung wrote: post #15
taberiand wrote: post #3

I wouldn't be surprised if such feedback loops have been excluded from the models of climate change because they paint a picture so dire that no amount of mitigation (if there were any serious attempts at mitigation going on) could save our way of life. "Sooner and worse than expected" is a phrase I expect to hear with increasing frequency.

I came to that realization after taking an environmental education class where they " left out the feedback loops". I disagree with your sentiment that they had to leave things like this out of the model. If it was left out it was probably not well understood. Its pretty easy to see that any form of mitigation is irrelevant until it becomes a real problem because getting large groups to agree on things isn't a scient…

One of the major flaws of this species is that we don't do anything inconvenient, that requires global agreement, until it becomes literally an existential threat. And even then we may dither, and there will be special interests that will keep spreading out misinformation about it, etc.

Seriously, the "sapiens" part in the name of our species is a bit of an exaggeration.

Re: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air

#63

Post by Florin_Andrei »

2OEH8eoCRo wrote: post #56
hood_syntax wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's probably safer to assume that we're pretty much screwed at keeping the status quo and we need to start researching ways for humanity to survive the resulting changes. Of course, we should still keep ongoing efforts to curb and eventually eliminate the emission of greenhouse gases in effect, but we're past the point of pretending the worst case isn't possible.

We need to invent fusion like yesterday and use that to power efforts to extract CO2 from the atmosphere.

I'm a big proponent of huge increases in funding for fusion research. But I think a better "extreme measures" project to mitigate global warming is the space sunshade:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_sunshade

Re: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air

#64

Post by microcolonel »

Florin_Andrei wrote: post #62
zitterbewegung wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I came to that realization after taking an environmental education class where they " left out the feedback loops". I disagree with your sentiment that they had to leave things like this out of the model. If it was left out it was probably not well understood. Its pretty easy to see that any form of mitigation is irrelevant until it becomes a real problem because getting large groups to agree on things isn't a scient…

One of the major flaws of this species is that we don't do anything inconvenient, that requires global agreement, until it becomes literally an existential threat. And even then we may dither, and there will be special interests that will keep spreading out misinformation about it, etc. Seriously, the "sapiens" part in the name of our species is a bit of an exaggeration.

> Seriously, the "sapiens" part in the name of our species is a bit of an exaggeration.

Compared to what? I think you should be happy with what you've got, because it's the best we've ever seen. I'm happier with a species that could burn out, than one that could do no wrong. If there was a problem, yo, we'll solve it.

Re: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air

#65

Post by stcredzero »

2OEH8eoCRo wrote: post #57
logfromblammo wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trouser-soiling moment is when the methane clathrate ices start melting. They call that one the "Clathrate Gun" hypothesis, because you can't un-fire a gun. Once that trigger is pulled, no amount of anthropogenic CO2 emissions reductions will have any effect whatsoever. From then, it will take a positive, intentional, globally coordinated effort to reduce temperatures by other means, or we will be well and truly…

Doesn't methane break down in the atmosphere fairly rapidly? From what I'm reading, methane lasts about 12 years while CO2 can stay in the atmosphere for potentially thousands. Unless we choke to death on methane isn't this less of an issue than CO2 buildup?

Methane is a very potent greenhouse gas, and the release would be absolutely huge. The momentary spike would well cause a lot of CO2 to be released.

Re: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air

#66

Post by lutorm »

logfromblammo wrote: post #52
pjc50 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can someone PLEASE tell me why there haven't been more efforts underway to have commnities around the world plant more trees and engage in planned reforestation? There's no money in it? Whereas there's plenty of money in deforestation. Tragic, but that is the world we live in.

Trees are for chumps. People should be planting grasses, and bamboo in particular. The larger bamboo species grow faster than any tree, and can be exploited by the human economy on a shorter timescale, thus making people more likely to plant bamboo forests on their own initiative. Grow bamboo. Cut it down. Use it for building and consumer products, such that its carbon content does not quickly return to the atmospher…

The key is phrase is "... such that its carbon content does not quickly return to the atmosphere". Growing grasses for biofuel wouldn't help.

Re: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air

#67

Post by Florin_Andrei »

microcolonel wrote: post #64
Florin_Andrei wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the major flaws of this species is that we don't do anything inconvenient, that requires global agreement, until it becomes literally an existential threat. And even then we may dither, and there will be special interests that will keep spreading out misinformation about it, etc. Seriously, the "sapiens" part in the name of our species is a bit of an exaggeration.

> Seriously, the "sapiens" part in the name of our species is a bit of an exaggeration. Compared to what? I think you should be happy with what you've got, because it's the best we've ever seen. I'm happier with a species that could burn out, than one that could do no wrong. If there was a problem, yo, we'll solve it.

Compared to the freaking brink of annihilation that we walk to every time there's an opportunity to do so.

Re: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air

#68

Post by mirimir »

taberiand wrote: post #3

I wouldn't be surprised if such feedback loops have been excluded from the models of climate change because they paint a picture so dire that no amount of mitigation (if there were any serious attempts at mitigation going on) could save our way of life. "Sooner and worse than expected" is a phrase I expect to hear with increasing frequency.

Notwithstanding claims of deniers, climate scientists are generally conservative in their modeling.

Re: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air

#69

Post by [deleted] »

Florin_Andrei wrote: post #62
zitterbewegung wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I came to that realization after taking an environmental education class where they " left out the feedback loops". I disagree with your sentiment that they had to leave things like this out of the model. If it was left out it was probably not well understood. Its pretty easy to see that any form of mitigation is irrelevant until it becomes a real problem because getting large groups to agree on things isn't a scient…

One of the major flaws of this species is that we don't do anything inconvenient, that requires global agreement, until it becomes literally an existential threat. And even then we may dither, and there will be special interests that will keep spreading out misinformation about it, etc. Seriously, the "sapiens" part in the name of our species is a bit of an exaggeration.

[deleted]

Re: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air

#70

Post by mirimir »

Florin_Andrei wrote: post #62
zitterbewegung wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I came to that realization after taking an environmental education class where they " left out the feedback loops". I disagree with your sentiment that they had to leave things like this out of the model. If it was left out it was probably not well understood. Its pretty easy to see that any form of mitigation is irrelevant until it becomes a real problem because getting large groups to agree on things isn't a scient…

One of the major flaws of this species is that we don't do anything inconvenient, that requires global agreement, until it becomes literally an existential threat. And even then we may dither, and there will be special interests that will keep spreading out misinformation about it, etc. Seriously, the "sapiens" part in the name of our species is a bit of an exaggeration.

I'm reminded of Stephenson's Seveneves.
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