Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Introducing Network Service Tiers

cloudplatform.googleblog.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 215 posts

Re: Introducing Network Service Tiers

#111

Post by wmf »

captainmuon wrote: post #103
_7iun wrote: post #50

A long standing complaint of mine is that Cloud egress pricing severely limits the usefulness of compute. If I want to say process some visual effects on a large (1TB) ProRes video, I might spend $1 on the compute but $100 on the egress getting it back. Unfortunately these changes don't really resolve that problem. "Standard" pricing is a paltry 20% less. That 1TB video egress still costs $80 and for that price I can…

I wonder what that same 1 TB of data costs on the "open market" (or how it is even priced). Say I'm a smallish ISP on the east coast and want to send 1 TB to another smallish ISP on the west coast. I probably have a contract with, I don't know, AT&T or whoever owns the cables (I'm from Europe so I have no clue, in Germany it would be Telekom). I'm guessing it would probably cost cents (and that would bring my data ac…

1 TB = $35. https://www.packetfabric.com/pricing/

Re: Introducing Network Service Tiers

#112

Post by parimm »

TheSockStealer wrote: post #65
brunoTbear wrote: post #54

I quite like the way Google has drawn the map here-since no cables reach from India to Europe, they've split the map there making the paths easier to trace between Asia and NA. https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-QvF57n-55Cs/WZypui8H8zI/AAAAAAAAE... Compare with the difficulties of https://cloud.google.com/images/locations/edgepoint.png Elegant and subtle work. Just like the networking.

Nice find. What is the ping time from India to Iran? That is a long trip for a packet.

~260ms.

The route was Chennai-Amsterdam-Jordan-Iran

https://pastebin.com/nCT0VA2e

Re: Introducing Network Service Tiers

#113

Post by wmf »

nealmueller wrote: post #102
CodeWriter23 wrote: post #58

It would be nice if they would say if their pricing is per GB or per TB. https://cloud.google.com/network-tiers/pricing

I worked on this product release, at Google. Can you guide my eye please where we don't specify TB? I'll get that fixed. I took a look and it says TB. @nealmueller if that's easier for you.

Look where it says "$0.105". $0.105 per what? Us cloud experts know the answer, but it's not obvious on the page.

Re: Introducing Network Service Tiers

#114

Post by xemdetia »

xg15 wrote: post #29

Not that I'm really surprised, but does that map imply that Google has its own trans-atlantic undersea cables? Is there some more info about that?

There's quite a few multinationals that have underseas cables as part of their network infrastructure (think finance). It's sometimes worth the expense just to lay cable then tunnel through the public internet for peace of mind. On a smaller scale there are plenty of people running long distance microwave networks and paying for direct fiber links that are outside the public internet.

Re: Introducing Network Service Tiers

#115

Post by Thaxll »

shimon_e wrote: post #104
Analemma_ wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is "Cloud" bandwidth so damned expensive? Because compute is the loss leader to get you in the door. The bandwidth is where they make their money.

How do they lose money on CPU? Even if they were buying their CPUs at full retail (they aren't), break even would be less than 12 months.

Electricity is #1 expense.

Re: Introducing Network Service Tiers

#116

Post by lowbloodsugar »

pfg wrote: post #23
lowbloodsugar wrote: post #10

So is this like the app engine price hike debacle a few years ago but with "better" messaging? So "Try Network Service Tiers Today" means "Migrate to Standard Tier today to avoid the massive price increases coming soon"? But fundamentally they just massively underestimated costs and need to find a way to adjust pricing. With app engine it was very conveniently beta, so they used the end of beta for the price hike. Fo…

They announced the new prices[1]. There doesn't seem to be a price increase for most scenarios, and the price is slightly lower for some. There appears to be a $ 0.01 increase if you currently push more than 1 TB, but less than 10 TB of traffic across continents or within regions like Asia or Oceania. [1]: https://cloud.google.com/network-tiers/pricing#premium_tier_...

So you're saying that the fact that they have new prices now refutes my suggestion that there will be price hikes in the future? I'm saying Google has a habit of pricing something, and then hiking the price later. I said specifically, above, that this announcement is early warning of price hikes: "migrate to standard tier now before the price hikes". Your rebuttal is "but the prices right now haven't gone up"?

Re: Introducing Network Service Tiers

#117

Post by Thaxll »

Animats wrote: post #109
lmickh wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious if any provider has given you similar contract terms?

Here are Codero's terms.[1] There's a procedure for dealing with breaches of the agreement, with 7 day and 30 day notices to cure. It's not one-sided, like Google's: "Google may terminate this Agreement for its convenience at any time without liability to Customer."[2] Do you want to bet your business on that? [1] http://codero.cachefly.net/docs/legal/TOS.pdf [2] https://cloud.google.com/terms/

I bet if you have CP you don't wait 30days ...

Re: Introducing Network Service Tiers

#119

Post by kwindla »

komali2 wrote: post #57
breck wrote: post #12

Seeing the map of Google's network makes me appreciate more the impact of undersea cables. If you're interested in the history of earth-scale networks I recommend this free documentary on Cyrus Field and the heroic struggle to lay the first transatlantic cable: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFKONUBBHQw

Absolutely boggles my gorram mind the large-scale engineering that goes into making the internet work. Love the parts in Cryptonomicon where they delve into the sea cables stuff.

Related, one of my favorite Wired Magazine stories -- and favorite pieces of long form journalism, period -- Neal Stephenson goes out on a boat to string some cable: https://www.wired.com/1996/12/ffglass/

Re: Introducing Network Service Tiers

#120

Post by dsr_ »

captainmuon wrote: post #92
0x27081990 wrote: post #86

I thought they were firm supporters of Net Neutrality. Or is this somehow different case?

This is in fact the "original" case of net neutrality. Recently, the discussion was mostly about your ISP charging - either you or some site - to prioritize certain content, like streaming. But in this context, it is about the providers of the "backbone" of the internet providing the same service to everybody. Usually, different companies and organisations had their public nets, and they allowed each others data to f…

Suppose you are an ISP with a new streaming video service as a customer -- ComFlix. You sell a 1Gb/s pipe to ComFlix. You buy a 10Gb/s pipe from Google.

If Google limits, deprioritizes or drops traffic from ComFlix, that's Google committing a NN violation.

If you limit ComFlix's 1 Gb/s pipe to 1 Gb/s, that's not a NN problem.

If Google limits your 10Gb/s pipe to 10Gb/s, that's not a NN problem.

If Google offers to replace your 10Gb/s pipe with a 20Gb/s pipe at the same price on the condition that video streams will be intercepted and limited so that they cannot support more than 480P, and you accept, both you and Google are violating NN.

If you ask Google for a 10Gb/s pipe but they refuse to sell it to you solely because ComFlix is a competitor for YouTube, you have an interesting court case.

Basically, NN violations occur when someone drops packets that they otherwise would have carried, based on the content, source or destination of those packets. But paying more for a bigger or more direct pipe by itself is not an NN problem.

Post reply on HN