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Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air

#11

Post by cmurf »

candiodari wrote: post #9
taberiand wrote: post #3

I wouldn't be surprised if such feedback loops have been excluded from the models of climate change because they paint a picture so dire that no amount of mitigation (if there were any serious attempts at mitigation going on) could save our way of life. "Sooner and worse than expected" is a phrase I expect to hear with increasing frequency.

It was never true that human industry was the main cause of co2 release into the atmosphere. Which is one of the reasons to doubt that all those climate accords will have any influence on global warming at all. > "Sooner and worse than expected" is a phrase I expect to hear with increasing frequency. If you increase the input into self-reinforcing feedback loop that is exactly what you'd expect to happen. Not that at…

This is idiocy. You basically have to believe tens of thousands of scientist are liars to accept the first statement. Not merely they're mistaken, not merely they have imperfect data, but intentionally deceiving with malice. That's how many scientists and how much data there is contravening your first statement, not least of which is Exxon - that liberal bastion of environmental preservation.

Re: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air

#12

Post by castis »

candiodari wrote: post #9
taberiand wrote: post #3

I wouldn't be surprised if such feedback loops have been excluded from the models of climate change because they paint a picture so dire that no amount of mitigation (if there were any serious attempts at mitigation going on) could save our way of life. "Sooner and worse than expected" is a phrase I expect to hear with increasing frequency.

It was never true that human industry was the main cause of co2 release into the atmosphere. Which is one of the reasons to doubt that all those climate accords will have any influence on global warming at all. > "Sooner and worse than expected" is a phrase I expect to hear with increasing frequency. If you increase the input into self-reinforcing feedback loop that is exactly what you'd expect to happen. Not that at…

What if it's all a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?

Re: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air

#13

Post by cmurf »

StevePerkins wrote: post #2

Worth pointing out that this article is over 3 months old.

There are more recent articles than this one. New York Times, CNBC are all reporting it in the last 24 hours.

http://www.rcinet.ca/en/2017/08/22/permafrost-thawing-faster...

And they're citing an April 2017 published paper: http://www.nature.com/nclimate/journal/v7/n5/full/nclimate32...

Re: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air

#14

Post by B1FF_PSUVM »

candiodari wrote: post #9
taberiand wrote: post #3

I wouldn't be surprised if such feedback loops have been excluded from the models of climate change because they paint a picture so dire that no amount of mitigation (if there were any serious attempts at mitigation going on) could save our way of life. "Sooner and worse than expected" is a phrase I expect to hear with increasing frequency.

It was never true that human industry was the main cause of co2 release into the atmosphere. Which is one of the reasons to doubt that all those climate accords will have any influence on global warming at all. > "Sooner and worse than expected" is a phrase I expect to hear with increasing frequency. If you increase the input into self-reinforcing feedback loop that is exactly what you'd expect to happen. Not that at…

> Feedback loops are notoriously hard to mitigate.

"Amplifiers that oscillate and oscillators that won't are the two great fears of analog designers."

Re: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air

#15

Post by zitterbewegung »

taberiand wrote: post #3

I wouldn't be surprised if such feedback loops have been excluded from the models of climate change because they paint a picture so dire that no amount of mitigation (if there were any serious attempts at mitigation going on) could save our way of life. "Sooner and worse than expected" is a phrase I expect to hear with increasing frequency.

I came to that realization after taking an environmental education class where they " left out the feedback loops". I disagree with your sentiment that they had to leave things like this out of the model. If it was left out it was probably not well understood. Its pretty easy to see that any form of mitigation is irrelevant until it becomes a real problem because getting large groups to agree on things isn't a scientific thing but a problem for society. Usually that only occurs when its pretty apparent that they have to do something to mitigate it.

Re: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air

#16

Post by taberiand »

candiodari wrote: post #9
taberiand wrote: post #3

I wouldn't be surprised if such feedback loops have been excluded from the models of climate change because they paint a picture so dire that no amount of mitigation (if there were any serious attempts at mitigation going on) could save our way of life. "Sooner and worse than expected" is a phrase I expect to hear with increasing frequency.

It was never true that human industry was the main cause of co2 release into the atmosphere. Which is one of the reasons to doubt that all those climate accords will have any influence on global warming at all. > "Sooner and worse than expected" is a phrase I expect to hear with increasing frequency. If you increase the input into self-reinforcing feedback loop that is exactly what you'd expect to happen. Not that at…

No, we started the avalanche with our carbon emissions.

Re: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air

#17

Post by graeme »

candiodari wrote: post #9
taberiand wrote: post #3

I wouldn't be surprised if such feedback loops have been excluded from the models of climate change because they paint a picture so dire that no amount of mitigation (if there were any serious attempts at mitigation going on) could save our way of life. "Sooner and worse than expected" is a phrase I expect to hear with increasing frequency.

It was never true that human industry was the main cause of co2 release into the atmosphere. Which is one of the reasons to doubt that all those climate accords will have any influence on global warming at all. > "Sooner and worse than expected" is a phrase I expect to hear with increasing frequency. If you increase the input into self-reinforcing feedback loop that is exactly what you'd expect to happen. Not that at…

correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you've been misunderstood. Are you saying:

  1. Most CO2 release is natural
  2. We increased CO2 through our own efforts as well
  3. [implied statement you may agree with: this led to a feedback loop]
  4. We now may be too late to stop it merely by reducing emissions, if planetary emissions of stored carbon take over and become the main source of CO2 emissions
I think's actually fairly profound. We may have pushed the system towards a new equilibrium, and it's now moving itself faster than we are pushing it. The only way to stop it would be to invent something to suck carbon from the atmosphere on a massive scale.

Is that what you were saying? You're getting downvotes because your first statement, while technically true, isn't very profound. Natural carbon emissions were counterbalanced by natural carbon storage.

But that might not be true if our additional emissions have triggered enough feedback loops.

Re: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air

#18

Post by actsasbuffoon »

candiodari wrote: post #9
taberiand wrote: post #3

I wouldn't be surprised if such feedback loops have been excluded from the models of climate change because they paint a picture so dire that no amount of mitigation (if there were any serious attempts at mitigation going on) could save our way of life. "Sooner and worse than expected" is a phrase I expect to hear with increasing frequency.

It was never true that human industry was the main cause of co2 release into the atmosphere. Which is one of the reasons to doubt that all those climate accords will have any influence on global warming at all. > "Sooner and worse than expected" is a phrase I expect to hear with increasing frequency. If you increase the input into self-reinforcing feedback loop that is exactly what you'd expect to happen. Not that at…

> It was never true that human industry was the main cause of co2 release into the atmosphere.

This is technically true, but I think it misses the point.

It's like complaining about Jeff Bezos being financially irresponsible because he bought a yacht. It might be financially irresponsible for you or me to buy a yacht, but Jeff Bezos's bank account is much bigger, and refills much more rapidly.

It's true that the natural carbon cycle involves a lot of sequestered carbon being released into the air, but nature actually consumes a little bit more carbon than it emits. If we left the natural carbon cycle alone, atmospheric carbon would decline.

Human industry is fundamentally the opposite. We emit CO2, but we don't sequester it in any significant way. Nature may pump more CO2 into the air than we do, but it also absorbs far more than we do. In fact, once nature consumes all of its own CO2, it consumes roughly 40% of what we put out there. The remaining 60% of our output is why atmospheric carbon keeps increasing.

Re: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air

#19

Post by [deleted] »

candiodari wrote: post #9
taberiand wrote: post #3

I wouldn't be surprised if such feedback loops have been excluded from the models of climate change because they paint a picture so dire that no amount of mitigation (if there were any serious attempts at mitigation going on) could save our way of life. "Sooner and worse than expected" is a phrase I expect to hear with increasing frequency.

It was never true that human industry was the main cause of co2 release into the atmosphere. Which is one of the reasons to doubt that all those climate accords will have any influence on global warming at all. > "Sooner and worse than expected" is a phrase I expect to hear with increasing frequency. If you increase the input into self-reinforcing feedback loop that is exactly what you'd expect to happen. Not that at…

[deleted]

Re: Alaska’s thawing soils are now pouring carbon dioxide into the air

#20

Post by topspin »

cmurf wrote: post #11
candiodari wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was never true that human industry was the main cause of co2 release into the atmosphere. Which is one of the reasons to doubt that all those climate accords will have any influence on global warming at all. > "Sooner and worse than expected" is a phrase I expect to hear with increasing frequency. If you increase the input into self-reinforcing feedback loop that is exactly what you'd expect to happen. Not that at…

This is idiocy. You basically have to believe tens of thousands of scientist are liars to accept the first statement. Not merely they're mistaken, not merely they have imperfect data, but intentionally deceiving with malice. That's how many scientists and how much data there is contravening your first statement, not least of which is Exxon - that liberal bastion of environmental preservation.

"You basically have to believe tens of thousands of scientist are liars to accept the first statement"

The first statement, that human industry is not "the main cause of co2 release," is undisputed fact. This is what the DOE says [1]:

  "Natural CO2 sources account for the majority of CO2 released into the atmosphere."
    and
  "Carbon dioxide comes from both natural and anthropogenic sources; natural sources are predominant."
Your misunderstanding is apparently common enough that the last assertion is offered in the context of dispelling a myth.

[1] https://www.netl.doe.gov/research/coal/carbon-storage/carbon...

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