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The Icewind Dale Problem

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Re: The Icewind Dale Problem

#61

Post by swozey »

seanp2k2 wrote: post #47
beobab wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you got an enormous amount of enjoyment from it, which is what a game is for. :) I remember doing a similar thing with save files and the old Ragnarok game.

Same but with stuff like Diablo 2 and D2Edit / Jamella. Gameshark Pro was also fun stuff. It's honestly sad that you can't gameshark modern consoles since it was so much fun to mod games in ridiculous ways. Mod support for PC games is what keeps me buying PC games. Edit: excited for the potential mod support for FFXV on PC.

I no longer have time to dedicate to games like I did as a kid so cheats are a huge deal to me (single player only). They don't "ruin" the game for me at all. I only play games a few times a month but my steam library contains hundreds. So on that one random Saturday I've got the free time to dedicate to 5+ hours to gaming I want to get as far as possible in a couple of games. I've been playing the Witcher 3 seemingly forever.

I have a Ps4 and a few big games for it, Yakuza, etc and I've played them all once or twice because of the time investment required to get through the story. I WANT to enjoy the story. It's really unfortunate. I'd love to speed up my progress, instead I'm forced to watch Lets Plays of those games.

Re: The Icewind Dale Problem

#62

Post by Retric »

e12e wrote: post #60
Retric wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gear, Perks, and Stats are 100% under your control and you can buy training. So, you might have twice the levels of stealth and archery, but be a better mage. Skyrim's biggest issue is the gear / classes are not balanced overall. Mages end up spamming high level spells endlessly while doing vastly less damage than an archer with good gear.

Remember Smaug? Sometimes an archer with good gear wins the day in stories too...

The problem is you can easily get to the point where a single arrow always kills everything. Not just a lucky 3rd shot :)

1h/2h also get there, it's just conjuration and destruction that lag.

Re: The Icewind Dale Problem

#63

Post by graphitezepp »

seanp2k2 wrote: post #51
baldfat wrote: post #39

Titan Quest - Best Abilities and Stats System. Should have taken over the whole genre system wise. You all start vanilla and when you use an ability it ads xp to that ability. Melee then attack as a melee, or ranged pick up the bow and shoot. If its magic learn to pull off the right skills. It was easiest to go melee at first and magic was more difficult but then it switched mid game.

That's how Tales games work too (at least Tales of Berseria, I'm guessing the others follow).

IIRC Tales of Symphonia stats (mostly) acted like an old school FF game of just fixed stat increase per level.

Re: The Icewind Dale Problem

#64

Post by dkersten »

talmand wrote: post #43
moron4hire wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm trying to remember off the top of my head how Skyrim did it. During the character creation, I don't remember doing a class assignment, certainly not explicitly like Morrowind or Oblivion. I think everyone just started at the same base character level, and your "class" fell out of your behavior over the course of the game. Do more destruction magic, earn more magic power. Regardless, if it wasn't Skyrim, that seem…

I've played several games over the years that handle skills/classes that way, Skyrim being a recent one. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Often times it's easy to abuse the system to get high stats quickly and unrealistically. Plus, these games will usually have a scale on enemy difficulty based on you instead of the game world. So if you somehow run into something that should be incredibly dangerous for…

I HATE level scaling in games. Enemy level scaling in Oblivion and Skyrim made it pointless to fight things, item scaling in The Witcher 3 made every item drop dull and boring. Instead of meeting a new monster and thinking "ok, shit, how do I beat this?" and then going on to figure out a strategy, or instead of finding an awesome new weapon and thinking "wow! amazing!", every new thing barely even registered because it wasn't exciting.

This was extra irritating in The Witcher 3 where you receive swords as quest rewards and the characters comment on how its this amazing magical sword renowned for its history or whatever and I check the stats only to see that it is either 1) only marginally better than what I already have or, more usually, 2) not even as good as the weapon I already have.

On the other hand, in Gothic 3, I could walk off the main road and find end game monsters that could (and did) kill me in a single strike. Figuring out how to beat them while still low level was a ton of exciting fun. Hell, its the exact reason I play games like Dark Souls.

Re: The Icewind Dale Problem

#65

Post by e12e »

dozzie wrote: post #16
dri_ft wrote: post #15

I clocked more than my fair share of hours rerolling stats on Baldur's Gate. But in retrospect, it seems like outrageously shoddy game design. "We're going to have a permanent set of stats that determine how powerful your character is for the whole game, and how good those stats are is going to depend mostly on how much time you spend clicking 'reroll' and a little bit on luck. And we're going to make you do this all…

Note that it's not because the game was designed this way, but because the Dungeons and Dragons system was designed this way. It's not optimized for first-time and impatient computer players, but for roleplayers.

The difference is that it can be fun to role-play a weak warrior, a stupid mage or a clumsy thief - or disagreeable bard. No computer game come close to that kind of storytelling / social / intelligent interaction though.

The second best thing is stuff like Moria/Angband where each stat has a clear use and game effect - and of course in such games some form of re-roll/prioritization makes a lot of sense (the automagic re-roll based on min-stats targets (I need at least 17 dexterity) introduced in some version of Angband is probably the best if you want player-visible stats).

Re: The Icewind Dale Problem

#66

Post by antisthenes »

dkersten wrote: post #64
talmand wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've played several games over the years that handle skills/classes that way, Skyrim being a recent one. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Often times it's easy to abuse the system to get high stats quickly and unrealistically. Plus, these games will usually have a scale on enemy difficulty based on you instead of the game world. So if you somehow run into something that should be incredibly dangerous for…

I HATE level scaling in games. Enemy level scaling in Oblivion and Skyrim made it pointless to fight things, item scaling in The Witcher 3 made every item drop dull and boring. Instead of meeting a new monster and thinking "ok, shit, how do I beat this?" and then going on to figure out a strategy, or instead of finding an awesome new weapon and thinking "wow! amazing!" , every new thing barely even registered because…

I see the Gothic vs TES debates rage to this day!

Brings back tons of memories.

Re: The Icewind Dale Problem

#67

Post by antisthenes »

bbctol wrote: post #40
moron4hire wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm trying to remember off the top of my head how Skyrim did it. During the character creation, I don't remember doing a class assignment, certainly not explicitly like Morrowind or Oblivion. I think everyone just started at the same base character level, and your "class" fell out of your behavior over the course of the game. Do more destruction magic, earn more magic power. Regardless, if it wasn't Skyrim, that seem…

Yeah, Skyrim was a major break from the earlier Elder Scrolls games by abandoning pre-made classes. It's probably a good idea in many ways, but you run into a similar problem if you want to level up in skills that aren't actually that much fun (which is basically anything except fighting.) If you want to be a master blacksmith, instead of spending time re-reolling, you spend it... crafting hundreds of iron daggers.

Umm, what?

Neither Morrowind nor Oblivion had pre-made classes. You technically had the option of picking "mage", but that distinction was utterly pointless beyond the first few levels. You weren't limited in leveling up primarily skills opposite of your "class".

Re: The Icewind Dale Problem

#68

Post by elevensies »

jghn wrote: post #38
dri_ft wrote: post #15

I clocked more than my fair share of hours rerolling stats on Baldur's Gate. But in retrospect, it seems like outrageously shoddy game design. "We're going to have a permanent set of stats that determine how powerful your character is for the whole game, and how good those stats are is going to depend mostly on how much time you spend clicking 'reroll' and a little bit on luck. And we're going to make you do this all…

This reminded me of how I spent multiple nights re-rolling my party on my Mac port for Wizardry I. I eventually hit a point total that allowed me to start one character as a ninja, which apparently must have been a bug because that was supposed to be impossible. My cheesiness knew no bounds however. At some point I acquired a shuriken, which would increase your total HP by 1 every time you equipped it. I did the righ…

That reminds me of a PC Hockey game, NHL 2001 or something like that. On regular season mode you could trade a player for a slightly better player. Half an hour of trading later you could have an all-star team, without even playing a game.

Re: The Icewind Dale Problem

#70

Post by bbctol »

antisthenes wrote: post #67
bbctol wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, Skyrim was a major break from the earlier Elder Scrolls games by abandoning pre-made classes. It's probably a good idea in many ways, but you run into a similar problem if you want to level up in skills that aren't actually that much fun (which is basically anything except fighting.) If you want to be a master blacksmith, instead of spending time re-reolling, you spend it... crafting hundreds of iron daggers.

Umm, what? Neither Morrowind nor Oblivion had pre-made classes. You technically had the option of picking "mage", but that distinction was utterly pointless beyond the first few levels. You weren't limited in leveling up primarily skills opposite of your "class".

IIRC Oblivion had you choose a class, but then you still leveled up skills by using them (it definitely had pre-made classes, though.) I never actually played Morrowind, though.
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