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World War II was totally unrealistic

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Re: World War II was totally unrealistic

#71

Post by zokier »

c1sc0 wrote: post #19
pilif wrote: post #3

interesting view on the history. Of course, over here in Europe, we go into great detail when looking at WWII in history at school (at least the European part) and to be honest, I have to agree with the poster - all this feels kind of surreal and inaccurate. I guess this is already some consequence of history-rewriting going on in some parts, combined with strange coincidences. But in general, yes, the whole story, e…

Upvoted for daring to raise the issue of history-rewriting.

History is written by the victors.

Re: World War II was totally unrealistic

#72

Post by william-newman »

jakevoytko wrote: post #20

This is the effect of telling the histories of nations as if they were groups of 5 people. It's convenient to say sentences like, "Germany then instigated the Battle of Britain, causing Churchill to say X and beginning a lengthy battle," but anything like this is a gross simplification. When nations take action, the whole org-chart needs to move into gear, which takes extra planning and arguing and wrangling and doub…

"Trimming facts off at the first few levels of details makes everything feel, well, oversimplified."

But it's not just oversimplification of collective action, the plot was overblown even at the level of purely individual events in individual characters' lives. Arguably the greatest theoretical/experimental crossover physicist of the century takes the occasion of accepting his Nobel Prize to escape with his Jewish wife from Il Duce, and a few years later stands musing over a nuclear chain reaction in a secret project in Chicago? Puhleeze.

Re: World War II was totally unrealistic

#73

Post by pavel_lishin »

arethuza wrote: post #46
patio11 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention the aircraft carriers made out of ice, the campaign to firebomb Japanese cities using bats with incendiaries tied to them, or the brilliant idea to starve out Japanese island garrisons by airdropping pigs onto them in the hope that the pigs would eat the grains before the Japanese ate the pigs (failed).

What about bombs bouncing on water or giant weaponized Catherine Wheels: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panjandrum

Wow, never heard about that one. Did they never duct-tape bottle rockets together as kids? Might have taught them a little humility and saved some time.

Re: World War II was totally unrealistic

#74

Post by Naga »

rmc wrote: post #30
skalpelis wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is our all generations' responsibility to work together in the whole world to prevent such atrocities happening again.

Shame we're not doing great. Just look at Rwanda. A genocide in the mid 1990s

Don't forget Bosnia and Darfur.

Re: World War II was totally unrealistic

#75

Post by btilly »

malkarouri wrote: post #70
tomjen3 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay there is no way to say this that is nice, but: It is Africa, and as much as it sucks for the people there, it has always been so and will properly be so long after we are gone.

There is nothing special about Africans that will make them "properly[sic?] be so long after we are gone". The same tendency for long wars is everywhere. The history of Europe in the 19th century and earlier was almost a series of continuous wars. The main difference is that the cost of war is now too high for advanced countries. Even WWI wasn't enough. People recognize it and made the League of Nations, which still…

I'm fairly sure that the author meant to write "probably" instead of "properly".

And no, there is nothing special about Africans, but a lot that is "special" about Africa. The rampant disease. The widespread corruption. The poverty resulting from those. The political boundaries that are a remnant of European map making rather than any sort of internal logic. These have contributed to generations of misery, and there is no immediate prospect of this changing.

Re: World War II was totally unrealistic

#76

Post by tomjen3 »

malkarouri wrote: post #70
tomjen3 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay there is no way to say this that is nice, but: It is Africa, and as much as it sucks for the people there, it has always been so and will properly be so long after we are gone.

There is nothing special about Africans that will make them "properly[sic?] be so long after we are gone". The same tendency for long wars is everywhere. The history of Europe in the 19th century and earlier was almost a series of continuous wars. The main difference is that the cost of war is now too high for advanced countries. Even WWI wasn't enough. People recognize it and made the League of Nations, which still…

True there is nothing special about the Africans that makes them more likely to make wars. It is just that the meddling that we have done the last couple of centuries, combined with the culture has left them with little alternative.

Re: World War II was totally unrealistic

#77

Post by btilly »

patio11 wrote: post #17
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #12

At first I thought the author might be poking fun at the war -- then I realized that he was actually poking fun at himself. People have high standards for fiction, yet some of the strangest things are real-life stories from history. A couple of my favorites from the Pacific Theater: 1) Radar detected the Japanese strike force approaching Pearl Harbor, but the guy in charge said it was a glitch. 2) The Japanese planne…

Not to mention the aircraft carriers made out of ice, the campaign to firebomb Japanese cities using bats with incendiaries tied to them, or the brilliant idea to starve out Japanese island garrisons by airdropping pigs onto them in the hope that the pigs would eat the grains before the Japanese ate the pigs (failed).

My favorite messed up weapons from WW II.

The Americans came up with an anti-tank grenade that was really sticky so that it would stay to the tank it was thrown at. Discontinued due to an unfortunate tendency to remain in the thrower's hand.

The Russians (land of Pavlov and all that) came up with the idea of dogs with bombs strapped to their backs that had learned to associate the under side of tanks with food. Great idea, and it might have worked, if the Russian trainers had access to German tanks for the training. Unfortunately when first deployed the dogs proved able to tell Russian tanks apart from German ones, and immediately put the Russians in full retreat.

(I found these in a book of world's worsts that I read many, many years ago.)

Re: World War II was totally unrealistic

#78

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

arethuza wrote: post #46
patio11 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention the aircraft carriers made out of ice, the campaign to firebomb Japanese cities using bats with incendiaries tied to them, or the brilliant idea to starve out Japanese island garrisons by airdropping pigs onto them in the hope that the pigs would eat the grains before the Japanese ate the pigs (failed).

What about bombs bouncing on water or giant weaponized Catherine Wheels: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panjandrum

There were actually successful attacks with water-skipping bombs. In some cases it was the only way to get the bombs to the target due to the low angle needed.

Re: World War II was totally unrealistic

#79

Post by riffraff »

arethuza wrote: post #44
MarkPNeyer wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"these guys are worse or on a par for atrocities with anyone ever, real or imagined" If you look at the total number of people killed, hitler's atrocities pale in comparison with those of Stalin and Mao.

Another big difference was that in Stalin's Soviet Union or Mao's China just about everyone was under potential threat - being a member of the party or close to the leader wasn't really any help. Whereas in Nazi Germany it was a much colder clinical decision to systematically remove "undesirable" elements from society. I think it is the systematic element of their terror, rather than the sheer lunatic barbarity of th…

isn't this a reductionist view? the night of the long knives is just the first example I can think of, but I'm pretty sure there were more examples of people _becoming_ undesirable.

Re: World War II was totally unrealistic

#80

Post by zokier »

malkarouri wrote: post #70
tomjen3 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay there is no way to say this that is nice, but: It is Africa, and as much as it sucks for the people there, it has always been so and will properly be so long after we are gone.

There is nothing special about Africans that will make them "properly[sic?] be so long after we are gone". The same tendency for long wars is everywhere. The history of Europe in the 19th century and earlier was almost a series of continuous wars. The main difference is that the cost of war is now too high for advanced countries. Even WWI wasn't enough. People recognize it and made the League of Nations, which still…

The difference between Africans and Europeans is that Europeans didn't have more advanced civilization constantly prodding and poking them (and drooling for their resources), and that is what makes Africa prone to constant warfare.

The best thing for Africa imho currently would be a big fence around it, and a label on the gate reading "Do not open before year 3000 AD. Sincerely, the people of 2000 AD."

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