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Apple Scales Back Its Ambitions for a Self-Driving Car

nytimes.com

261–270 of 434 posts

Re: Apple Scales Back Its Ambitions for a Self-Driving Car

#261
post #247

Transportation is becoming a service rather than a product. There is no room for a Veblen good in a market of non-owners.

In the future perhaps, not just now https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/08/02/ferrari-race-secon... Though I expect in the future some people will still want fancy cars

That's not really the market segment Apple will be aiming for.

Re: Apple Scales Back Its Ambitions for a Self-Driving Car

#262

“From the beginning, the employees dedicated to Project Titan looked at a wide range of details. That included motorized doors that opened and closed silently. They also studied ways to redesign a car interior without a steering wheel or gas pedals, and they worked on adding virtual or augmented reality into interior displays. The team also worked on a new light and ranging detection sensor, also known as lidar. Lida…

This so reminds me of the discussion about fire from the Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy. The challenge of a self driving car is to get it to drive by itself, not to try to make it look good and to solve a whole pile of engineering problems that have had everybody in engineering looking at them since as long as we have the profession. Making gadgets and making a self driving car require a different mind-set. The fir…

Apple often tries to re-engineer the thing they develop.from the ground up. Seems it started this way on Titan, too, then scaled back and decided to focus on the main problem: safely getting around. Nothing wrong with this I think.

On reinvented wheels, early ideas rejected today may get a second life later, e.g. spherical wheels for moving in very constrained environments.

Re: Apple Scales Back Its Ambitions for a Self-Driving Car

#263

“From the beginning, the employees dedicated to Project Titan looked at a wide range of details. That included motorized doors that opened and closed silently. They also studied ways to redesign a car interior without a steering wheel or gas pedals, and they worked on adding virtual or augmented reality into interior displays. The team also worked on a new light and ranging detection sensor, also known as lidar. Lida…

Please don't glorify companies before they actually deliver.

Re: Apple Scales Back Its Ambitions for a Self-Driving Car

#264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there is a 20+ year history of PDAs before the iPhone. For all intents and purposes my 1998 Windows CE Casio PDA looks and acts like a first gen iPhone. It's home screen has a grid of 3x4 icons of apps and general works very analogous to the iPhone. Apple did an amazing job of polishing the PDA but they made an incremental jump being at the right place at the right time with affordable cellular data and capacitive to…

> For all intents and purposes my 1998 Windows CE Casio PDA looks and acts like a first gen iPhone I assume you also think a Hyundai looks and acts like a Ferrari. Because that is what you are saying. I owned that PDA as well as the Treo 650 which was far better and the iPhone isn't an incremental jump. It was a complete revolution.

The Hyundai Coupe from about ~15 years ago looked rather like a Ferrari 456. In fact some adverts here in the UK actually showed them side-by-side.

Re: Apple Scales Back Its Ambitions for a Self-Driving Car

#265
post #170

If they scale them down even more than they already have, we'll end up with a horse drawn buggy. Hey, it's self driving!

Reminds me of a story my dad told about a guy in his village who still drove a horse and cart in the 1960s. He drove it down to the pub where he would get blind drunk but it didn't matter as "the horse would take him home".

Re: Apple Scales Back Its Ambitions for a Self-Driving Car

#266

> Even though Apple had not ironed out many of the basics, like how the autonomous systems would work, a team had already started working on an operating system software called CarOS. There was fierce debate about whether it should be programmed using Swift, Apple’s own programming language, or the industry standard, C++. Wow. Few things guarantee success like starting off a project with a good old-fashioned language…

I'd say the choice of language you write your OS in is a pretty important one. There should be a fierce debate about such things.

Re: Apple Scales Back Its Ambitions for a Self-Driving Car

#267
post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This so reminds me of the discussion about fire from the Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy. The challenge of a self driving car is to get it to drive by itself, not to try to make it look good and to solve a whole pile of engineering problems that have had everybody in engineering looking at them since as long as we have the profession. Making gadgets and making a self driving car require a different mind-set. The fir…

Apple often tries to re-engineer the thing they develop.from the ground up. Seems it started this way on Titan, too, then scaled back and decided to focus on the main problem: safely getting around. Nothing wrong with this I think. On reinvented wheels, early ideas rejected today may get a second life later, e.g. spherical wheels for moving in very constrained environments.

It is absolutely fine to re-engineer something from the ground up once you have a working example in your hand. But before then you are simply wasting your time.

the iPod was not the first music player, the iPhone not the first smartphone. Re-engineering those was the only way to get them to market in a way that might drive mass adoption.

As for the spherical wheels, yes, however such a development is totally tangential (pun intended) to self driving cars.

Re: Apple Scales Back Its Ambitions for a Self-Driving Car

#268
post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>When someone seriously suggests to 'reinvent the wheel' it is time to re-focus. Goodyear released spherical wheels. It's not that stupid at all to reinvent the wheel, sometimes: https://www.sciencealert.com/watch-goodyear-unveils-the-futu...

You're missing my point. It may not be stupid to reinvent the wheel at all. But that's not a project that you should mix with inventing a self driving car unless you conclude that spherical wheels are the only way a self driving car will ever become a reality. Similar to how every software application project could theoretically result in a new database, a new operating system and if you really want to go all out a n…

>You're missing my point. It may not be stupid to reinvent the wheel at all. But that's not a project that you should mix with inventing a self driving car

That's only true if the team that reinvents the wheels and the team that does the self-driving tech is the same, and you're stealing members from the latter to the former.

Obviously those are not the same teams, nor they need to be.

And when you get out with your self-driving car, as 3-4 companies will do at more or less the same time or within a few years of each other, having other great new innovations on top of that will give you an edge.

Re: Apple Scales Back Its Ambitions for a Self-Driving Car

#269
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We have the iPhone because Apple was so ambitious. When you say that, you conventiently forget that Apple re -invented the smartphone. It was an proven thing, which already sold in spades in the tech/enterprise market. They took something which existed and was awkward to use, and re-did the UI layer of the whole thing. They refined something else which was already proven. They didn't invent something original from…

Yup, exactly this. They have no idea how to make a self driving car so wasted time on other things hoping someone will solve the actual hard part. It's pretty common when given an impossible project, and you need to show something .

Or you know, the have multiple teams, and they don't just want to put out a "self driving car" out, but a great self driving car that rethinks what a car should be like -- on top of "self-driving".

Re: Apple Scales Back Its Ambitions for a Self-Driving Car

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We have the iPhone because Apple was so ambitious. When you say that, you conventiently forget that Apple re -invented the smartphone. It was an proven thing, which already sold in spades in the tech/enterprise market. They took something which existed and was awkward to use, and re-did the UI layer of the whole thing. They refined something else which was already proven. They didn't invent something original from…

There is no such thing as a UI layer. UI and function are inextricably linked. For example, see iPhone's voicemail. Or the touch screen. Or the app store. None of those things could have been executed by UI teams at any other device manufacturer at the time.

Only when you're talking about software, which is arguably the "UI layer" of a physical computing device. Hardware needs actual things which do the things, independent of interface.
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