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Ask HN: Should I Learn Ruby?

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Re: Ask HN: Should I Learn Ruby?

#101

Post by acangiano »

andrewtj wrote: post #51
acangiano wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I generally agree with your comment, but I found this stament to be inaccurate: > (more popular than Rails actually) [citation needed]. The largest websites/web applications in the world are built in Rails much more frequently than in Django. And there is much more demand for Rails developers in the marketplace. I fail to see evidence that Django is actually used more than Rails is in the real world.

You may want to reread his post. The penultimate sentence is a kicker.

I'm not a big fan of the "Bullshit statement." -> "I may be trolling" approach. He is still spreading misinformation that people here may believe as true.

Re: Ask HN: Should I Learn Ruby?

#102

Post by jshen »

rufugee wrote: post #75
jshen wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"That said, I threw my hands up after running into multiple libraries duck punching (monkey patching) ActiveSupport into a mangled, conflicting mess one too many times. The open classes thing really is harmful, no matter what anyone tells you. It's a feature that, when used with care, can be very powerful...but the problem is in my experience it's not used with care very often in the Rails world." I don't quite agree…

I guess the issue is the prevalence with which it occurs in Ruby, as you say. I've been programming professionally for over a decade now, in at least as many languages, and I've only had this problem with ruby. Still, I enjoy ruby very much, and I haven't seen my last project in it or Rails. I just need reliability and consistency now, and Python seems to offer more of it. I may as you say hit this same problem in Dj…

"I've been programming professionally for over a decade now, in at least as many languages, and I've only had this problem with ruby."

It's a trade off. Take away monkey patching and you get other problems. Just look at java projects. Once you make an interface and someone else uses it you can't change it anymore without breaking everyones code. Check out the eclipse code base for examples.

Re: Ask HN: Should I Learn Ruby?

#103

Post by jshen »

acpigeon wrote: post #59
binspace wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may also want to consider Sinatra for rapid prototyping. It's lighter weight (less framework) than Rails. Depending on your preferences, it may suite your needs.

Sinatra is also based on Ruby yes? How does it differ specifically from Rails?

I'd learn rails over sinatra. Sinatra is like being thrown into the deep end of the pool when you haven't learned to swim yet. You have to do it all yourself, where as in rails they've done all foundational stuff for you. Learning rails will teach you some good practices for how to structure a project, sinatra assumes you already know how to do this stuff yourself.

Re: Ask HN: Should I Learn Ruby?

#104

Post by jshen »

spokey wrote: post #34
acangiano wrote: post #11

For the record, Ruby is just one, albeit massive, component. You need to learn a bit about each of the following areas. Must have: - HTML - CSS - Ruby - Ruby on Rails Really nice to have: - JavaScript / jQuery (or similar) - SQL / Database design Nice to have: - Git (Revision control system) - RSpec or similar (Ruby testing) You don't need to learn everything tomorrow, but I laid out sort of a roadmap of things you m…

May I recommend that if you're new to Ruby and especially if you're new to programming as a whole you may be better off with web framework like Sinatra rather than Rails. Rails has a lot of "magic" and a fair bit of code generation that is going to make it harder for you to understand what is really going on. I mean it's nice that rails can generate an "hello world" app without writing a line of code, I think you'll…

I completely disagree. Rails takes care of the foundation for you, and a novice doesn't need to know how it's implemented for a while. It also has good practices built in like dev,test,prod environments, testing infrastructure, mvc separation, etc.

Sinatra assumes you will roll all of this on your own. A novice won't know to do this, or how to do it, so I think it's better to have it done for you at first.

Re: Ask HN: Should I Learn Ruby?

#105

Post by binspace »

andrewtj wrote: post #100
binspace wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

aah, it was supposed to be humorous. Jeez, I guess the jokes on me. > and you reach that conclusion? The only conclusion I have reached so far is that you are a dick.

I don't expect you'll respond, but, what happened in the 4 hours between your first civil response and this second rather uncouth one?

It figures you downvoted me. You will probably downvote this one too.

I was sort of thinking about it, and I realized you were screwing with me. It's sortof humorous and dickish (sorry douchey is more appropriate) at the same time.

I don't hate you, but it's not how I would conduct myself, especially if somebody is obviously ignorant over a certain context of discussion.

> second rather uncouth one

I thought it was appropriate. I could have been more high-brow about it, but why bother? You would have downvoted me anyway and would not have been any more sympathetic. It certainly made me feel better.

Also using lmgtfy, classy! (I had another comment but decided I didn't want to get downvoted twice by you, so I merged it).

Re: Ask HN: Should I Learn Ruby?

#106

Post by [deleted] »

binspace wrote: post #105
andrewtj wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't expect you'll respond, but, what happened in the 4 hours between your first civil response and this second rather uncouth one?

It figures you downvoted me. You will probably downvote this one too. I was sort of thinking about it, and I realized you were screwing with me. It's sortof humorous and dickish (sorry douchey is more appropriate) at the same time. I don't hate you, but it's not how I would conduct myself, especially if somebody is obviously ignorant over a certain context of discussion. > second rather uncouth one I thought it was a…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Should I Learn Ruby?

#107

Post by andrewtj »

binspace wrote: post #105
andrewtj wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't expect you'll respond, but, what happened in the 4 hours between your first civil response and this second rather uncouth one?

It figures you downvoted me. You will probably downvote this one too. I was sort of thinking about it, and I realized you were screwing with me. It's sortof humorous and dickish (sorry douchey is more appropriate) at the same time. I don't hate you, but it's not how I would conduct myself, especially if somebody is obviously ignorant over a certain context of discussion. > second rather uncouth one I thought it was a…

It figures you downvoted me. You will probably downvote this one too.

So that's what concerned you. The points don't matter. Seriously, they don't mean anything and certainly shouldn't change the way you interact with people. Particularly as you don't know who is doling out the points.

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1505323

Re: Ask HN: Should I Learn Ruby?

#108

Post by binspace »

andrewtj wrote: post #107
binspace wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It figures you downvoted me. You will probably downvote this one too. I was sort of thinking about it, and I realized you were screwing with me. It's sortof humorous and dickish (sorry douchey is more appropriate) at the same time. I don't hate you, but it's not how I would conduct myself, especially if somebody is obviously ignorant over a certain context of discussion. > second rather uncouth one I thought it was a…

It figures you downvoted me. You will probably downvote this one too. So that's what concerned you. The points don't matter. Seriously, they don't mean anything and certainly shouldn't change the way you interact with people. Particularly as you don't know who is doling out the points. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1505323

> So that's what concerned you. The points don't matter.

That's your response? How very caviler of you.

It does matter because it's communication, albeit binary and pretty bad, about how well your comment is being received. It matters emotionally, just like a scowl matters, or a joke at your expense matters.

It's also a form of censorship and throwing rotten food on the poster.

> Particularly as you don't know who is doling out the points

Well, that is part of the problem, isn't it? Humans are not completely logical, Dr. Spock. Including me and you... We gotta make assumptions sometimes in absence of information. Well cool, I found out something new, you got your jab in there. Win-win.

Point taken about how the voting algorithm works.

Re: Ask HN: Should I Learn Ruby?

#109

Post by andrewtj »

binspace wrote: post #108
andrewtj wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It figures you downvoted me. You will probably downvote this one too. So that's what concerned you. The points don't matter. Seriously, they don't mean anything and certainly shouldn't change the way you interact with people. Particularly as you don't know who is doling out the points. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1505323

> So that's what concerned you. The points don't matter. That's your response? How very caviler of you. It does matter because it's communication, albeit binary and pretty bad, about how well your comment is being received. It matters emotionally, just like a scowl matters, or a joke at your expense matters. It's also a form of censorship and throwing rotten food on the poster. > Particularly as you don't know who is…

I can only assume that your vitriol stems from my lmgtfy post and so for that I apologise. My comment about the points was and is both sincere and practical advice and I hope you can revisit that post and my others in a less antagonistic light.

Re: Ask HN: Should I Learn Ruby?

#110

Post by binspace »

andrewtj wrote: post #109
binspace wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So that's what concerned you. The points don't matter. That's your response? How very caviler of you. It does matter because it's communication, albeit binary and pretty bad, about how well your comment is being received. It matters emotionally, just like a scowl matters, or a joke at your expense matters. It's also a form of censorship and throwing rotten food on the poster. > Particularly as you don't know who is…

I can only assume that your vitriol stems from my lmgtfy post and so for that I apologise. My comment about the points was and is both sincere and practical advice and I hope you can revisit that post and my others in a less antagonistic light.

Thank you, and no worries. It's been a few days and I'm well over it.

I get the message you were trying to get across and I agree with it.

Mainly, I perceived you as being rude and disdainful (lmgtfy, "That is your conclusion?"). I can't speak for everybody, but my immediate reaction is to feel stupid, and then get defensive. It's hard to take a step back and realize how minor it is when in the moment.

I know that was not your intention. I really do appreciate you sticking this out.

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