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Apple Scales Back Its Ambitions for a Self-Driving Car

nytimes.com

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Re: Apple Scales Back Its Ambitions for a Self-Driving Car

#201

Post by tempestn »

EddieRingle wrote: post #147
tambourine_man wrote: post #36

“From the beginning, the employees dedicated to Project Titan looked at a wide range of details. That included motorized doors that opened and closed silently. They also studied ways to redesign a car interior without a steering wheel or gas pedals, and they worked on adding virtual or augmented reality into interior displays. The team also worked on a new light and ranging detection sensor, also known as lidar. Lida…

I remember reading about Goodyear releasing a "spherical wheel" concept in early 2016: http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a19747/goodyear-eagle-3...

ISTM you could get all the same benefits much more easily using four-wheel independent steering, on regular, cylindrical wheels. The design could also be much more compact by sacrificing fully horizontal motion. (IE if the rear wheels only turned up to +-30 degrees, say.) It could still park very tightly using a zig-zag motion, and in any other situation tighter turning wouldn't be useful.

Porsche (and possibly other companies) are already moving in this direction, with newer models featuring computer-controlled rear wheel steering. At low speeds the rear wheels steer in the opposite direction to the front, and at high speeds in the same direction.

Re: Apple Scales Back Its Ambitions for a Self-Driving Car

#202

Post by fennecfoxen »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #52
hkmurakami wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They wouldn't get the tech they're looking for. Manufacturing scale is not something they need until after they have the self driving tech (and also, I'd just partner with a Japanese or German automaker tbh. Toyota under the current CEO has made moves that hint that it would be open to a joint venture). The main differentiator of current big auto is the engine and drivetrain engineering, which you can circumvent when…

You're also buying huge liabilities: - constrictive agreements with dealers - rapidly deprecating manufacturing assets - a workforce with sunk costs in last generation skills - a warranty burden on old vehicles - pensions and other union agreements - a beloved brand that the public may not be happy seeing chewed up and regurgitated as iTaxi Supplier 4A If you believe in an autonomous and electric near future, some of…

> - a workforce with sunk costs in last generation skills

Often a unionized workforce. You didn't want to use more robots on your assembly lines like Elon Musk, did you? Because these guys are still going to be employed. Period.

Re: Apple Scales Back Its Ambitions for a Self-Driving Car

#203

Post by enjo »

2bitencryption wrote: post #193
erikpukinskis wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no such thing as a UI layer. UI and function are inextricably linked. For example, see iPhone's voicemail. Or the touch screen. Or the app store. None of those things could have been executed by UI teams at any other device manufacturer at the time.

when I was watching the keynote live, and Jobs swiped his finger to scroll, I audibly gasped.

Palm OS apps were using swipe to scroll for several years before that. As far back as at least 2002.

That doesn't take away from what Apple did. They really took all of the best ideas (and in many cases hired the engineers who made them in the first place) and put them into one incredibly tight and delightful package. Just about every individual feature can be traced to Palm, Symbian, or a host of other systems... but the magic is making the whole thing work.

Still, it's important to remember that the iPhone was largely a logical evolution more than something invented by Apple wholesale. The iPhone was not the first touch screen slate phone that I ever saw FWIW. That honor belongs to an internal project at Nokia (based on Series 60) that died under it's own engineering weight.

Which again is meant as a compliment to Apple. They actually were able to execute on the thing where others failed.

Re: Apple Scales Back Its Ambitions for a Self-Driving Car

#204

Post by oblio »

amaranth wrote: post #105
c3534l wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counter arguments: Walmart, Google and Amazon.

Google was a search engine that made money via ads then pivoted into an ad platform that also has a search engine. Android and Chrome are about ensuring they have a seat at the table and don't get pushed out by Apple or Microsoft. The first thing of significance they've done that doesn't fit this is their cloud platform.

Their cloud platform is the same thing: trying to not get pushed out by Amazon and Microsoft.

Google Cloud is about ensuring that those two have competition and can't somehow pull an EEE. Extreme scenario: vast majority of world's online businesses are hosted on AWS and Amazon for whatever reason creates their own AWS ad service and forbids or undercuts Google AdWords for everything hosted on AWS.

Re: Apple Scales Back Its Ambitions for a Self-Driving Car

#205

Post by [deleted] »

frankchn wrote: post #159
jozzas wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It will probably soon reach the point where the car will intervene to prevent an accident. I expect even this to be cautiously adopted as there is a massive product liability issue here. Volvo already have this with auto brake and pedestrian protection: > Collision Warning with Auto Brake & Pedestrian Detection is an aid to assist the driver when there is a risk of colliding with a pedestrian or vehicle in front th…

Multiple manufacturers have the technology available in production cars today. Here is a demo involving a Mercedes coupe: https://youtu.be/eMUmI6LeZ_8?t=10m

[deleted]

Re: Apple Scales Back Its Ambitions for a Self-Driving Car

#206

Post by robertlagrant »

enjo wrote: post #203
2bitencryption wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

when I was watching the keynote live, and Jobs swiped his finger to scroll, I audibly gasped.

Palm OS apps were using swipe to scroll for several years before that. As far back as at least 2002. That doesn't take away from what Apple did. They really took all of the best ideas (and in many cases hired the engineers who made them in the first place) and put them into one incredibly tight and delightful package. Just about every individual feature can be traced to Palm, Symbian, or a host of other systems... bu…

The only new thing was a capacitive touchscreen, which allowed more responsiveness to a touch input. It just came along at the right time.

Re: Apple Scales Back Its Ambitions for a Self-Driving Car

#207

Post by tonyedgecombe »

Turing_Machine wrote: post #129
jamestimmins wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a strong case to be made that this isn't a desirable outcome in a lot of areas. Trains and buses are much more efficient at moving people than individual cars, even if they're self-driving. I'm also extremely excited about autonomous cars, but neither desire nor think they will replace mass transit. edit: As a few people have mentioned, my suggestion that "trains are buses are much more efficient" is dubious.…

"Trains and buses are much more efficient at moving people than individual cars, even if they're self-driving." I've said this on here before, but I'll say it again: efficiency is not everything . Individual houses (or even apartments) are less efficient than having everybody living in barracks, hot-bunking the beds in three shifts, and eating some sort of nutrient-balanced kibble in cafeterias. Human beings have goa…

If we stop pulling oil out of the ground efficiency will become everything. The whole western economy is based on cheap energy.

Re: Apple Scales Back Its Ambitions for a Self-Driving Car

#208

Post by colordrops »

dmix wrote: post #143
colordrops wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a lot of bike-shedding.

Sounds a lot like a company that wanted to build a new house of the future but found out they prefer redesigning the light fixtures, faucets, etc rather than the house itself. Aka the general UX details rather that would be ideal in a modern house rather than the house itself. Apple probably would never have developed the smartphone first but they did a hell of a good job at getting all the details right with the iPh…

Isn't that just a form of bike-shedding?

Re: Apple Scales Back Its Ambitions for a Self-Driving Car

#209

Post by wellboy »

ctdonath wrote: post #39
mypalmike wrote: post #15

If Apple were truly serious about building self-driving cars, they would buy one of the big 3 US auto manufacturers. It could buy all 3 with cash and still have one of the largest hoards of cash ever accumulated.

Over the decades I've noticed how businesses need to recognize and focus on their core competencies - if they don't, they die. Everything must feed that core, and undue distractions are lethal. Occasionally there's a need to pivot , which is deliberately stepping from one competency to another, but that is rare and difficult. Apple's core is to build small computers; everything else they do (music, video, cloud servi…

They have to focus on their competencies but they also have to completely reinvent themselves every decade or so or they will die. Once the iPhone is gone, Apple will be gone.

Re: Apple Scales Back Its Ambitions for a Self-Driving Car

#210

Post by gruturo »

segmondy wrote: post #44

Apple really is a one hit wonder. Outside of computing devices, phone, tablets, laptops, (let's throw in desktops & watches) They really haven't been able to build and innovate much since Jobs. I was short on the idea when they announced a self-driving car. Without a major change and internal culture shock, they are going to stay on this course, hit peak cash extraction until they start mortgaging cash quickly. The o…

I literally don't know whether to upvote or downvote you. The first sentence is beautifully sarcastic, but the rest makes me think it wasn't sarcasm at all.

Apart from this, I sort of agree with your view of not having been able to innovate much since SJ, but this is actually evidence of the opposite: not much new has been coming out of Apple, but clearly stuff is happening inside, which sometimes doesn't turn into a product, but their R&D appears to be alive and well.

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