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Sonos: users must accept new privacy policy or devices may “cease to function”

zdnet.com

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Re: Sonos: users must accept new privacy policy or devices may “cease to function”

#81

Post by HelloMcFly »

letsgetphysITal wrote: post #25
pgm8705 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you aren't the only one enjoying the music at your home. The most annoying thing about being at a party where bluetooth audio is being used is when the person paired gets too far away from the speaker.

Configure a tablet in guided / single app mode for music playback. Trivial stuff.

That would be trivial, but the small change in experience diminishes the value. If I want music in my bedroom, I don't want to have to walk to my living room to get the tablet, and I don't want to install a tablet in every room with instructions for how to use with Spotify, Pandora, Amazon Music, Pocket Casts, Apple Music, our networked media SSD, etc. or where I happen to want to pull music from. I don't want to have extra devices everywhere that require their own cords and physical spaces.

Sonos allows my wife and I to simply play whatever music we want, wherever we want, with no hassle. And it sounds great.

Re: Sonos: users must accept new privacy policy or devices may “cease to function”

#82

Post by Silhouette »

squeaky-clean wrote: post #65
crispyambulance wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't seem like a terrible deal ( http://www.sonos.com/en-us/legal/privacy ). What part of the privacy policy do you specifically have an issue with?

Mostly this part: > Sonos may modify or update this Statement when necessary to reflect customer feedback and changes in our Products and Service; so, please review it periodically. When we update this Statement, we will revise the “Last Updated” date at the top of the Statement. If there are material changes to the Statement or in how Sonos uses your personal data, we will notify you either by posting a notice of su…

I'm starting to think that any sort of B2C legal agreements, but particularly standard form contracts and similar documents like terms of service, EULAs and privacy policies, should be explicitly banned from including terms that essentially say the deal can be revised unilaterally and the customer is responsible for keeping an eye out for this. It's simply not a reasonable or practical arrangement for any normal person to do that, and it's the worst form of legalese CYA wording.

Perhaps, as with various other unreasonable or one-sided provisions, there should be a presumption under consumer protection laws that any such terms are invalid, that any substantial change in an agreement must have the customer's explicit, active consent, and that if the customer does not consent and this results in something they purchased no longer providing the expected benefit then the usual protections about broken purchases should apply. You'd have to be a bit careful, because sometimes these self-updating terms are used to deal with minor changes in the legal landscape that are formalities with no real impact on anyone, but that seems like the sort of thing a court could sensibly decide in the event of a dispute.

Re: Sonos: users must accept new privacy policy or devices may “cease to function”

#83

Post by crispyambulance »

FilterSweep wrote: post #66
crispyambulance wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, but "usage data" just doesn't seem like a big deal. Netflix and all other content providers collect "usage data" too, as does the devices these may run on such as "Roku" and other players.

Streaming Content Provider vs. Physical Device specifically made to play music you physically own or streamed from devices you physically own.

You can play stuff you physically own from a Roku too. Are you saying that Sonos could arbitrarily upload your media files to their servers? Doubtful. At worst, they could do a sound-print analysis locally on the device to identify it and send the metadata to Sonos.

I am trying to think of concrete examples of scenarios where actual harm would REALISTICALLY be done to individual consumers because of Sonos privacy policy.

Re: Sonos: users must accept new privacy policy or devices may “cease to function”

#84

Post by Ace17 »

dvdhnt wrote: post #60
justinjlynn wrote: post #2

It seems like nobody actually owns anything any more - that we're all just digital serfs living on someone else's land. I really don't know why anyone would willingly make such a deal.

Individuals haven't owned much in a very long time; we've been physical serfs living on someone else's land for even longer. You only "own" something so long as you pay taxes (aka rents) for the right to do so, otherwise someone, usually the government, will take it from you. Even if you don't want to play along, you can only be somewhere public for so long until you're loitering and subject to fines (more rents), co…

Please let me correct what you just said: "rent seeking is pretty blatantly anti-competitive [1], detrimental to individuals [2][3], and rotting the system from the inside out [4][5]."

Now let's talk about having control over my speakers.

Re: Sonos: users must accept new privacy policy or devices may “cease to function”

#85

Post by mhb »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #68
jalk wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I will tell my friend who has sonos players for around 2000 USD, I'm sure he will listen.

Good god, how many does he have that they set him back $2000?

Not as many as you'd think.

Re: Sonos: users must accept new privacy policy or devices may “cease to function”

#86

Post by zippergz »

senectus1 wrote: post #61
zippergz wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? Are there certain services you find to be buggy? I feel like Sonos is one of the least buggy pieces of tech in my house. That's what I love about it. It just works, I don't have to explain to non-technical family members how to work around issues, etc. But we almost exclusively use it for Apple Music and Spotify, so maybe there are some rough edges we haven't encountered.

try playing music that is stored on your phone the sonos... it keeps cutting the effing song off short and starting the next song too early. a bug that's been around forever and they plain refuse to fix it.

Ok, yeah, that's definitely not a use case I have tried. (In fact, one of the biggest reasons I switched to Sonos from using Airplay is that I wanted to get away from relying on my phone's network connection to have the music play.)

Re: Sonos: users must accept new privacy policy or devices may “cease to function”

#87

Post by mhb »

crispyambulance wrote: post #83
FilterSweep wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Streaming Content Provider vs. Physical Device specifically made to play music you physically own or streamed from devices you physically own.

You can play stuff you physically own from a Roku too. Are you saying that Sonos could arbitrarily upload your media files to their servers? Doubtful. At worst, they could do a sound-print analysis locally on the device to identify it and send the metadata to Sonos. I am trying to think of concrete examples of scenarios where actual harm would REALISTICALLY be done to individual consumers because of Sonos privacy pol…

1. Government 'dissident' listens to 'subversive' podcasts via Sonos.

2. Government compels Sonos to provide data on customers' listening histories.

3. Chilling effect, political implications, oppression.

Re: Sonos: users must accept new privacy policy or devices may “cease to function”

#88

Post by mhb »

zippergz wrote: post #59
mikerice wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's so good but still so buggy. Very much a love-hate relationship.

Really? Are there certain services you find to be buggy? I feel like Sonos is one of the least buggy pieces of tech in my house. That's what I love about it. It just works, I don't have to explain to non-technical family members how to work around issues, etc. But we almost exclusively use it for Apple Music and Spotify, so maybe there are some rough edges we haven't encountered.

Listening to some podcasts requires some distasteful hoop jump throughing.

Re: Sonos: users must accept new privacy policy or devices may “cease to function”

#89

Post by inopinatus »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #68
jalk wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I will tell my friend who has sonos players for around 2000 USD, I'm sure he will listen.

Good god, how many does he have that they set him back $2000?

That's the ballpark price of a standard Sonos 5.1 home theatre set.

Re: Sonos: users must accept new privacy policy or devices may “cease to function”

#90

Post by pjc50 »

dvdhnt wrote: post #60
justinjlynn wrote: post #2

It seems like nobody actually owns anything any more - that we're all just digital serfs living on someone else's land. I really don't know why anyone would willingly make such a deal.

Individuals haven't owned much in a very long time; we've been physical serfs living on someone else's land for even longer. You only "own" something so long as you pay taxes (aka rents) for the right to do so, otherwise someone, usually the government, will take it from you. Even if you don't want to play along, you can only be somewhere public for so long until you're loitering and subject to fines (more rents), co…

Tax is not rent unless you're in an actual feudal system.
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