Earlier quoted context omitted.
What do you think you're missing? He undermined the processes he's meant to support, which sends a mixed message about the org's commitment to its Code of Conduct, and in fact his behavior undermined its authority. In addition, he explicitly violated some policies. Out of his 13 peers (other Node TSC members), 4 felt strongly enough about this that they have resigned.
Six of them voted for no sanctions, though. And two abstained. Who lost the vote resigned, which is a way to say "we couldn't expel you by voting, now we're trying to create as much drama as possible because we just can't accept the decision, even if voted democratically by our peers"
Effective immediately I am stepping down from the Nodejs TSC
81–90 of 142 posts
Re: Effective immediately I am stepping down from the Nodejs TSC
#82The unredacted details still feel like they're missing something: https://web.archive.org/web/20170821212745/https://github.co... "...Rod’s first action was to apologize to a contributor who had been repeatedly moderated. Rod did not discuss the issue with other members of the CTC/TSC first. The result undermined the moderation process as it was occurring" "Rod did not moderate himself when asked by another foundatio…
Of everything in there, this one is probably the most problematic. """ His tweeting of screen captures of immature responses suggests pleasure at having upset members of the JavaScript community and others. As a perceived leader, such behavior reflects poorly on the project. https://twitter.com/rvagg/status/887790865766268928 """
That seems much less problematic that undermining moderation as it occurs.
Re: Effective immediately I am stepping down from the Nodejs TSC
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
What do you think you're missing? He undermined the processes he's meant to support, which sends a mixed message about the org's commitment to its Code of Conduct, and in fact his behavior undermined its authority. In addition, he explicitly violated some policies. Out of his 13 peers (other Node TSC members), 4 felt strongly enough about this that they have resigned.
Six of them voted for no sanctions, though. And two abstained. Who lost the vote resigned, which is a way to say "we couldn't expel you by voting, now we're trying to create as much drama as possible because we just can't accept the decision, even if voted democratically by our peers"
The purpose of the vote was to determine if any action should be taken, the vote occurred and its outcome was respected. If individuals want to resign because they disagree with the outcome of the vote, they are clearly entitled to do so and it does not violate the spirit of democracy that those unsatisfied with the status-quo take a stand by moving on from the organization. They didn't trash the place or delete all the source code and ban all dissenters from the project, they simply resigned from their roles within the organization which allows it to continue unencumbered by the dissenters strongly held viewpoints.
If they had voted to boot the guy and his supporters resigned to show solidarity and protest the decision, would you have been similarly critical?
Re: Effective immediately I am stepping down from the Nodejs TSC
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
>>Society has been telling people to shut up for a very, very long time. Does not make it right when it occurs >Stepping down from a position because you disagree with someone != "Free Speech" Attempting to, or actually forcing someone out of a project on the basis they liked a article on the web you believe they should not have liked, then responded with "incorrect words" is in fact a Free Speech issue >If you reall…
Your original post was against Myles voicing his disagreement. Why were you against Myles voicing his disagreement? Isn't that like restricting freedom of speech, or telling someone (Myles) to shut up?
But since you seem to be confused allow me to clearly state my position
1. Myles is free to say what ever he wants.
2. I am free to say what ever I want
3. I believe Codes of Conduct are an assault on freedom of speech
4. I will speak out critically against anyone supporting their use or their enforcement
Re: Effective immediately I am stepping down from the Nodejs TSC
#85I think that everyone would be well served by stepping back from this and thinking carefully about commenting, before inserting snark and derision at either side. I see a number of comments that trot out a lot of tired "anti-SJW" talking points, and these do not add to the dialogue and only create unnecessary animosity. I didn't see any negativity on the "pro-SJW" side yet - the responses to the former seem calm but…
Also, this article comes from another TSC member, meaning one of his peers. If 4 of your 12 peers resign because you weren't removed, there is almost certainly some merit to these complaints.
As far as I can tell there is no merit to the complaints. If 4 members stepped down, that suggests Node TSC has a serious problem with people who are wildly extreme.
Here's what appears to have happened based on the original complaint:
1. This guy tweets an article that discusses campus speech codes, university politics and so on. It doesn't attack anyone and is a fairly long-winded but reasonable contribution to the discussion about free speech. His tweet implies he does see CoCs as having downsides and that he finds this article to be persuasive.
2. In response, someone tweets that "I hope I meet you at a place without a CoC so I can take a dump on your laptop". Rod points out that this isn't a very nice response and is not a mature contribution to the conversation, "Hey here's an interesting discussion to be had vs ... ".
Now let's look at the complaints. They assert:
1. Rod tweeted an "inflammatory article"
2. When he highlighted the immature response, this "suggests pleasure at having upset members of the JavaScript community and others".
3. Some woman complained and said she wouldn't contribute anymore. That woman asserted that "some people said he was bad but what can you do". This was "a reason for some to avoid project participation"
4. And "it is evidence to others that Node.js may not be serious about its commitment to community and inclusivity", citing a tweet that says the Quillette essay is "hot garbage" written by a "known MRA" (what the heck does MRA stand for?).
I find this rationale extreme, absurd and scary. These people ARE in fact "warriors" by any definition of the term. I strongly disagree with the complaint because:
* The article is not inflammatory.
* After being subject to outright abuse and highlighting it, something that women do every day on Twitter, somehow this was turned into Rod being a bad person. This is pure doublethink. Rod was clearly annoyed and trying to point out that such responses are not acceptable.
* A woman proceeded to do some serious shit-stirring and trolling, claiming that lots of anonymous people disliked Rod behind his back, but of course, was unwilling to say who. This is not acceptable behaviour.
* Another woman dismissed the article with a straight ad-hominem on the author.
The bad and abusive behaviour here is very clear and it's all by people who were objecting to Rod's tweet. Yet somehow this turned into some sort of trial.
Fortunately, Node TSC rejected this transparent attempt to get rid of someone for having the temerity to tweet about politics. If there are other members who couldn't handle this and quit as a result, that can only be healthy for the project.
Re: Effective immediately I am stepping down from the Nodejs TSC
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think that's an uncharitable reading. It's one thing to be anti-CoC. It's another thing to be anti-CoC when you're on a committee whose job is to maintain and enforce the CoC. There's nothing dishonorable about saying "I don't think I agree with the goals of the job that I am doing, so I will let someone else do it," but he didn't do that. It's sort of like going to work for customs while being a strong believer in…
It looks like the responsibilities of the TSC involve much more than enforcing a code of conduct. If you want a simile for this situation, I'd say it's more like a police officer sharing an article that's in favor of marijuana legalization, and being upset when his coworkers attack him over it.
... but sharing such an article would not be wrong ...
Is the disconnect really this large between ideologies?
Re: Effective immediately I am stepping down from the Nodejs TSC
#87The unredacted details still feel like they're missing something: https://web.archive.org/web/20170821212745/https://github.co... "...Rod’s first action was to apologize to a contributor who had been repeatedly moderated. Rod did not discuss the issue with other members of the CTC/TSC first. The result undermined the moderation process as it was occurring" "Rod did not moderate himself when asked by another foundatio…
Of everything in there, this one is probably the most problematic. """ His tweeting of screen captures of immature responses suggests pleasure at having upset members of the JavaScript community and others. As a perceived leader, such behavior reflects poorly on the project. https://twitter.com/rvagg/status/887790865766268928 """
Re: Effective immediately I am stepping down from the Nodejs TSC
#88I think that everyone would be well served by stepping back from this and thinking carefully about commenting, before inserting snark and derision at either side. I see a number of comments that trot out a lot of tired "anti-SJW" talking points, and these do not add to the dialogue and only create unnecessary animosity. I didn't see any negativity on the "pro-SJW" side yet - the responses to the former seem calm but…
Also, this article comes from another TSC member, meaning one of his peers. If 4 of your 12 peers resign because you weren't removed, there is almost certainly some merit to these complaints.
If 6 of them vote against removing the "accused" party, and 2 of them abstain, there's certainly little merit to these complaints.
Re: Effective immediately I am stepping down from the Nodejs TSC
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
Also, this article comes from another TSC member, meaning one of his peers. If 4 of your 12 peers resign because you weren't removed, there is almost certainly some merit to these complaints.
Why not judge merit directly, yourself? As far as I can tell there is no merit to the complaints. If 4 members stepped down, that suggests Node TSC has a serious problem with people who are wildly extreme. Here's what appears to have happened based on the original complaint: 1. This guy tweets an article that discusses campus speech codes, university politics and so on. It doesn't attack anyone and is a fairly long-w…
Re: Effective immediately I am stepping down from the Nodejs TSC
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
Also, this article comes from another TSC member, meaning one of his peers. If 4 of your 12 peers resign because you weren't removed, there is almost certainly some merit to these complaints.
Why not judge merit directly, yourself? As far as I can tell there is no merit to the complaints. If 4 members stepped down, that suggests Node TSC has a serious problem with people who are wildly extreme. Here's what appears to have happened based on the original complaint: 1. This guy tweets an article that discusses campus speech codes, university politics and so on. It doesn't attack anyone and is a fairly long-w…