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Android Oreo

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Re: Android Oreo

#541

Post by mariusmg »

eloisant wrote: post #497
sitepodmatt wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android have been promising to finally tackle fragmentation in every release since KitKat. It seems people have a very short memory.

I think they did a great job at reducing fragmentation by pulling out most of the OS into upgradable components. All applications are upgradable, even Play Services are upgradable, and developers get the support library to get all the new things to all devices. So I believe they did a great job at reducing fragmentation in the sense that it no longer really matters what version you have, you still get all the newest…

> by pulling out most of the OS into upgradable components.

That's not true (the most of the OS part). They untangled their own stuff (Play Store, Google services and so on) and can update those as they see fit. The OS stuff is still monolithic. Most of serious security issues still require full OS updates. Also supporting a new major version of Android runtime still require a full OS update.

Re: Android Oreo

#542

Post by digi_owl »

DCKing wrote: post #536
dcomp wrote: post #108

The most interesting part is the way they are planning on tackling fragmentation in O onwards with Project Treble [0] If your device ships with O it should be running an immutable semantically versioned HAL. In essence you should be able to be able to flash AOSP on every new device. No matter what the vendor does. Edit: I can see it now, in the technical specs of each device you will see a list of HAL Versions. The n…

I'm very skeptical of the level of optimism that is thrown towards Project Treble. In the end it's just a way to make OEM's lives easier while developing updates. It will still require them to actually make updates for devices. Despite Project Treble they will still not have an economic incentive to update devices. And that is the core issue here, really. My expectation is that Project Treble will help speeding up An…

At least for companies rolling mostly stock Android, rather than the Samsung's of the world, Treble may well make it possible for them to simply forward what is coming from Google without the SoC source being an impediment. Something Google themselves were burned by when Qualcomm dropped support for the SoC used in a Nexus model, forcing Google to cut their support time short.

Re: Android Oreo

#543

Post by BinaryIdiot »

zamalek wrote: post #402
BinaryIdiot wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I tried scrolling down to see if it had any information regarding how or when this update would be released to their own phones and the scroll was just all over the place. I really wish everyone would stop hijacking scrolling.

Enroll in the beta to get the release version (on Pixel).

Thanks; it took way too long to figure out this was the path (maybe the release version is rolling out soon? I see zero indication anywhere).

Re: Android Oreo

#544

Post by DCKing »

mariusmg wrote: post #539
DCKing wrote: post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm very skeptical of the level of optimism that is thrown towards Project Treble. In the end it's just a way to make OEM's lives easier while developing updates. It will still require them to actually make updates for devices. Despite Project Treble they will still not have an economic incentive to update devices. And that is the core issue here, really. My expectation is that Project Treble will help speeding up An…

>and Project Treble does not signficantly change this This hits the nail on the head. ProjectTreble thing will make no significant change in the long run. OEMs don't care about updating Android, they only care about selling hardware and developing shitty custom launchers. Google is the only one that could change this. They could "tie" the Android licensing (Play Store and their custom bits) to forcing the OEM to rele…

To be honest, I think Google has LG, HTC, Sony, Nokia, Lenovorola, and almost every other Android manufacturer in the pocket here. These companies don't have the capabilities to independently make a competitive OS and app ecosystem and will have to comply with Google wherever it goes. With the exception of LG, all of these companies have even significantly dialed down their efforts to customize Android from AOSP or "Google's Android flavour" (that ships on Pixels) in the first place.

However, when Google would make such a move then they will see Samsung leave immediately and Huawei shortly thereafter. And Samsung makes 50% of Android devices - it will be a very hard business decision to justify destroying their ties with Samsung over device updates [1]. Note that Samsung periodically trots out their Tizen operating system to remind everybody that they can be independent of Android should they want to. Huawei will probably just fork Android and attempt to maintain their own app store.

The Android device market is rife with politics and the consumer is mostly on the short of the stick for it. And Apple is the real winner there - they can sell more expensive devices because people are rightly happy to pay a premium not to deal with Android's bullshit.

[1]: Ironically, Samsung is likely the best Android OEM for device updates - if and only if you consider their high end Galaxy S and Galaxy Note lines. The real issue is that Samsung wants to also flood the market with cheap crappy devices and never update them - and will likely happily ditch Android for Tizen to continue to do so.

Re: Android Oreo

#545

Post by intoverflow2 »

enimodas wrote: post #268
jampa wrote: post #36

I know this is a non-issue for many, but those emojis look really dated. Every update they get harder and harder to read in small form. One of the things I observe, mainly on Instagram Stories is only people with iOS post with emojis attached, I never see Android ones. Too bad there is no way to install custom emojis in any system (without rooting/registry tweaking), like we do with fonts.

The new emojois are in the top 50 of all time posts in /r/crappydesign https://www.reddit.com/r/CrappyDesign/comments/6elhjc/the_ne...

From kawaii to krappy

looks like bad 00s clipart

Re: Android Oreo

#546

Post by muninn_ »

gregw134 wrote: post #366
muninn_ wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's called an iPhone: https://www.apple.com/iphone/

Can't we assume everything you do on an iPhone is also tracked?

Well if you opt in to tracking sure, but otherwise I don't think it's a safe assertion. NSA or whatnot notwhithstanding (which affects every single phone manufacturer without exception) .

Re: Android Oreo

#547

Post by digi_owl »

pjmlp wrote: post #431
Tehnix wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before the iPhone, how prevalent were software updates to phones? I know of no one who ever got had an update. There is absolutely no reason for carriers to need to do anything at all, else it would not make sense that I can change the SIM card out and voila I’m on a new carrier. The manufacturer is the one doing the testing, and the carrier simply provides the infrastructure. I feel US perhaps has a different experi…

Nokia had firmware updates, but only technically savy people would do them. It was done via the desktop application to manage the phone. However one would ususally only get bug fixes on the Series 30 and 40. On Symbian towards the end of it, there were some OS updates still, but usually only once.

By the time iPhone hit, Nokia were doing over the air updating on their more recent models.

And Nokia was not alone, my Sony Ericsson C702 were capable of being getting new firmware OTA as well.

Keep in mind that this was back with the original iPhone that needed to be wired to a computer with iTunes installed.

Frankly the iPhone introduction feels more of a rollback than a upgrade from non-American point of view.

Re: Android Oreo

#548

Post by digi_owl »

xorcist wrote: post #518
rubyn00bie wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any facts to back this up? Prior to the iPhone changing how phones were sold-- carriers meddled with everything so they could get their hands in media playback, app sales, feature upgrades etc. I don't think much has changed in this where anyone gives them an inch (which is nearly everyone but Apple). Note: I worked for T-Mobile for four years prior and a little after the originals iphone came out.

Facts to backup what? That most mobile phone users are outside the US? Or that most of the world buys phones in home electronics stores, not from their carrier? The iPhone brought a bit of the outside world to the US telco market. This was only a matter of time, as the market becomes more globalized there is increasing competition in the consumer market, and carrier bound phones are less flexible and more expensive i…

Funny, i felt that the iPhone brought the US mobile market crapfest to the world. Especially when i watched Apple play favorites with what operator in my country, down to dictating the style of plans the iPhone could be combined with.

Re: Android Oreo

#549

Post by digi_owl »

kalleboo wrote: post #422
Tehnix wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before the iPhone, how prevalent were software updates to phones? I know of no one who ever got had an update. There is absolutely no reason for carriers to need to do anything at all, else it would not make sense that I can change the SIM card out and voila I’m on a new carrier. The manufacturer is the one doing the testing, and the carrier simply provides the infrastructure. I feel US perhaps has a different experi…

Near the end of the dumbphone era I remember getting an OTA update to mine that added a chat-style view to SMS text messaging. I don't think the iPhone would even get OTA updates for years, it was all purely through iTunes.

Bingo.

Both Nokia and Sony Ericsson were doing OTA firmware updates at that point, for "featurephones" no less.

iPhone didn't get that ability until iOS5, in 2011.

Re: Android Oreo

#550

Post by josteink »

csydas wrote: post #534
josteink wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> carriers are the first place people go to get their phones back in working order That only applies to phone bought from carriers. Most people buy them in electronic shops where they buy tvs and laptops and stuff (since that allows you to get the best deal any carrier can offer, and not just be restricted to one).

This is half true and I think it falls neatly along generational lines, with exceptions for "really good deals". Most iPhone owners became first time AT&T customers when the iPhone came out. When Android hit the market, people went to their carrier because before this more or less was how you had to do it. More people are just buying whatever phone and sticking a simcard in it but there is still a huge number who liv…

> More people are just buying whatever phone and sticking a simcard in it but there is still a huge number who live by what their carrier gives them.

Interestingly enough I see that as the wrong way around.

Going to a carrier specific-store is also guaranteed to offered me inferior choice both in phones and subscriptions. What's in it for me as a customer?

My electronic store is giving me the phone and carrier which provides me with the best deal. I have no reason to give a carrier, a transparent transport network, any sort of loyalty.

I don't have a "my carrier" which I care about. I do however have a "my phone", and I care about that deeply.

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