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Statistics Professor Just Banned by Google: Here Is His Story

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Re: Statistics Professor Just Banned by Google: Here Is His Story

#191

Post by bmn__ »

ancarda wrote: post #108
theWatcher37 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This type of behavior + AMP has pushed me off google completely. I'm determined to cut them out of my technical life entirely, I've even switched myself and everyone I know/support off their DNS. I can't support their shady practices anymore.

Any suggestions for alternatives to 8.8.8.8? Is OpenDNS any good?

OpenDNS is neither Open nor DNS.

I invite you to participate in OpenNIC, the democratic DNS root.

" rel="nofollow">https://opennic.org>

" rel="nofollow">http://enwp.org/Alternative_DNS_root#OpenNIC>

Re: Statistics Professor Just Banned by Google: Here Is His Story

#192

Post by vldx »

xiaoma wrote: post #103
jolux wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people, no, but he's immensely popular with a certain section of the right. Nonetheless I was a bit confused because you seemed to be implying that Peterson is just another apolitical academic who caught the short end of the deep learning stick, when there's a lot more evidence that his ban could have been politically motivated. I don't understand why I'm getting downvoted for that.

I think you're right. It was probably politically motivated, at least indirectly. It was more likely due to coordinated flagging efforts rather than a human at Google deciding to ban the account. He's getting a lot of support from the right, the center (e.g. Joe Rogan) and from many on the left such as Sam Harris as well. In all cases, it seems to be for free speech issues. He seems to hold a deep opposition to polit…

He had identified himself as classical liberal.

Re: Statistics Professor Just Banned by Google: Here Is His Story

#193

Post by xpaqui »

PeterisP wrote: post #106
shaqbert wrote: post #38

The automated canned answer is what rubs me the most here. There is a professor who trusted Google's Gmail and Blogspot product, gets the Axe for some violation of Terms of Service or Quality Guidelines, and does not get a clear and straight answer what specifically he did wrong, or how he can remedy the situation. I wish one of the Googlers reading this here could reach out internally what is going on here. I'd wage…

In such messages, not telling how he can remedy the situation is intentional . It illustrates that their goal&decision is not that they want him to try and change some behaviour (whatever that might be) but that they want to discontinue the relationship even if the behaviour changes, or (in the case of actually malicious users that need to be banned) gets hidden or kept at a 'slightly below the boundary' level, which…

Very good read.

Re: Statistics Professor Just Banned by Google: Here Is His Story

#194

Post by weberc2 »

mirimir wrote: post #171
weberc2 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, but the odds of my email account going away (while catastrophic) seem pretty unlikely, and not having to sift through spam every single day is a pretty nice perk. Basically strong spam filtering support is a requirement for any tool I use, and I'm happy to hop off of Gmail if another tool delivers comparable value.

I do get that. And perhaps you're discreet enough online that your Google account will never attract scrutiny. But it's something that every Google user ought to keep in mind, I think. I'm guessing that Salil Mehta never even considered it.

Fair point, but I don't understand why people think this is a case of Salil offending Google's censors and not simply algorithms gone awry. I got downvoted for expressing this doubt elsewhere in this thread, but no one could answer. I just can't parse a motive for Google to censor him on (as far as I know, he didn't criticize Google's diversity policies or anything of the sort).

Re: Statistics Professor Just Banned by Google: Here Is His Story

#195

Post by grimman »

jxramos wrote: post #166
mmagin wrote: post #99

Having hosted my own email for about 18 years, I don't really think relying on free services from Google is any better than when we used to change ISPs (or when we graduated from college) and had to get a new email address. I'm not seeing "google is evil" here as much as "we need to do more to inform people that free services from giant companies may change or go away at any time without notice."

this inspires me to grab some takeout, https://takeout.google.com/settings/takeout

I have found the exported data to be extremely spotty in certain areas. Especially the YouTube history.

Re: Statistics Professor Just Banned by Google: Here Is His Story

#196

Post by justbaker »

xiaoma wrote: post #2

No idea what all was on his blog and other google accounts, but according to the article they were used for his work at the university. Also some credible sites like the NYT linking into the disabled blog: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/19/business/the-stock-market... Google may have had some good reasons or it may have just been an example of ML discriminating against a name like Salil. Either way, it's very distur…

Yup, love the product and software -- hate the service. I cannot vouch for the lack of evil. :(

Re: Statistics Professor Just Banned by Google: Here Is His Story

#197

Post by xiaoma »

b4ux1t3 wrote: post #164
weberc2 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you misunderstood; he's not saying "Google isn't very bad because they made one small mistake", he's saying "Why should I switch from Google simply because there is a minuscule chance that they might make a mistake that affects me".

Thank you. Realistically, what's the likelihood that any single user who uses gmail is going to get shut down? Literally one in millions.

>"Literally one in millions."

Unless you work at Google and are privy to internal information, how could you possibly know that? The only reason you're hearing about this case is because the account holder is a university professor who lost a long standing Blogger site—used at his school and linked to by the NYT—and then the story made it to the front page of HN.

It's overwhelmingly likely that the vast, vast majority of people who lose access to their Google accounts never make it onto your radar.

Re: Statistics Professor Just Banned by Google: Here Is His Story

#198

Post by newscracker »

mirimir wrote: post #41
vim_wannabe wrote: post #16

I wonder how much I would lose if my Gmail was deleted... Everything I have is behind that address. What would be my best bet to move to if I'm too much of a bad to host my own email?

I've had good experience with Riseup and VFEmail. Even cock.li ;) I've always used separate accounts for personal, work, etc. For stuff that really matters, it's best to own your own domain. That way, if you lose an account, you can just reroute mail to the new account.

Services like Riseup constantly ask users not to store much information on the servers in order to contain the costs. The quotas are usually much smaller in such services.

P.S.: I do have a Riseup email account that I barely use for some specific areas of activism.

Re: Statistics Professor Just Banned by Google: Here Is His Story

#199

Post by newscracker »

dingdingdang wrote: post #188
SomeStupidPoint wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One idea: Use Google email but from a custom domain -- it doesn't back-up your email, but you can update the DNS to a new provider if you get locked out of Google's services. This means you can still recover accounts, use the same email, etc after a brief disruption, instead of totally hosed. It's not a total solution, but it does mitigate some problems, which makes Google's policies easier to swallow. (If you do sep…

Google Apps/whatever-its-currently-called used to be free for private use - this is no longer the case?

The free tier was removed a long time ago. Those who did register before that change had their free plans grandfathered and made available for free later too. I'm still using my free GSuite account with Gmail for a couple of my domains. My usage is very low, and I'm not sure if Google is mining data from free GSuite accounts. My understanding is that it does not.

Re: Statistics Professor Just Banned by Google: Here Is His Story

#200

Post by newscracker »

bassman9000 wrote: post #86
mirimir wrote: post #55

I can't imagine how people depend so heavily on free accounts from Google. Which notoriously ignores help requests. And typically don't retain backups. Seriously? But bottom line, it's Google's business what they do. And with a free account, there's no recourse. Except maybe getting to HN front page, and reaching someone sympathetic at Google.

"Free accounts" is misleading. Google is not giving anything away for free. They scan the emails and obtain valuable information regarding the user preferences and conversation, which later they use to tune their ads. We are the product. And, in the case of people like the banned professor, traffic to Google sites (e.g. blog) is multiplied. We make it sound like Google is gifting us with free email. They're not.

> They scan the emails and obtain valuable information regarding the user preferences and conversation, which later they use to tune their ads. We are the product.

At least for the "free" Gmail, as of two months ago (June 2017) Google promised to no longer scan email content. That change is coming in the near future. [1]

[1]: https://www.blog.google/products/gmail/g-suite-gains-tractio...

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