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Statistics professor at Columbia and Georgetown banned from all Google services

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Re: Statistics professor at Columbia and Georgetown banned from all Google services

#51

Post by puzzle »

5trokerac3 wrote: post #31
caseydurfee wrote: post #9

"If you show probability work like Hillary having lower election odds, then this is new definition of hate speech." I get that the guy is angry. I would be too if I got locked out of my accounts, but this is a ludicrous accusation -- the new definition of hate speech? "Never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity." The idea that google is waging war on this guy because of election predictions he made…

I would be inclined to believe it wasn't something very deliberate if it was only one or a few services getting shut down, but everything is fully removed. Even his [blog]( https://statisticalideas.blogspot.com ) has a "this has been removed" header. That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if there's more to this story than what's come out so far. I think it's worth following.

There's no such thing as a partial account removal. It's like your LDAP or AD account: you disable it and all services stop working, without having to worry about how each of them does access control on the front end as well as the back end. The latter can be the tricky and non obvious part.

Re: Statistics professor at Columbia and Georgetown banned from all Google services

#52

Post by ucaetano »

falcolas wrote: post #33
ucaetano wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you propose?

That Google reigns in the automated bans and automated appeals process, and provide time to do backups of their data and find an alternative solution. Ideally, if their goal is to reduce fraud and spam, they would offer people banned from their free email service a paid account under a different domain, or something similar. The longer that Google fails to take action, the more likely it is that the government will.…

So if Google blocks someone for using Gmail to share child porn, they should give the user a chance to download the content?

Re: Statistics professor at Columbia and Georgetown banned from all Google services

#53

Post by alexanderstears »

ForHackernews wrote: post #3

Contrary to some of the other comments, I highly doubt there's any political agenda at play here. More likely, this user inadvertently tripped some automated algorithm somewhere, and then failed the automated appeals process. That said, it's their service and their rules. Don't host data you care about on free services run by capricious multinationals.

>That said, it's their service and their rules. Don't host data you care about on free services run by capricious multinationals.

I 100% agree. Their service, their rules.

However, these platforms have carved out special rules for themselves on the basis of neutrality - look at the DMCA Safe Harbor provision. They've portrayed themselves as neutral platforms that accommodate everyone who can follow the terms of service. However, they seem to either apply the TOS more rigorously to some groups than others - that's completely antithetical to the idea of a neutrality.

In addition to saying "their service their rules" we should say "their service, their accountability". Strip them of the immunity they enjoy as platform providers and hold them accountable for all the content on their platforms - they curate the content, obviously everything that isn't banned or under review is content they support.

Also, through the disparate impact standards this probably merits some equal accommodation scrutiny. I don't have all the information in front of me, but it looks like Google's censorship for American users seems to catch more socially conservative users than socially liberal users - that probably has a desperate impact across a few protected classes (age and religion come to mind).

Now, I'm not saying that Google is guilty of refusing service to some protected classes. But I think their behavior merits some investigation to make sure that they're fulfilling their equal accommodation obligations like other American corporations.

Re: Statistics professor at Columbia and Georgetown banned from all Google services

#54

Post by falcolas »

dragonwriter wrote: post #44
falcolas wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it's also "their" power lines, water mains, sewer, and phone lines. We as a society don't let people be cut off from those services for their politics or their religion. And when people are cut off from aforementioned utilities, it's done with notice, and with the ability to have service restored when payment resumes.

> Well, it's also "their" power lines, water mains, sewer, and phone lines Monopoly utilities are different than services for which their are widespread alternatives, and Google's account-required services are neither monopolies nor regulated utilities.

The existence of alternatives does not negate a monopoly argument. Netscape, Opera, and other browsers existed when Microsoft was slapped down for IE. Google captures somewhere around 60% of the email market share - a dominant position from which they need to be careful about what actions they take.

As noted in response to a sibling comment, the presence of alternative providers has proven to not to be a reliable remedy for some opinions.

No, they are not currently regulated utilities. However, I believe that if they aren't careful, they may find themselves forced into that role.

Re: Statistics professor at Columbia and Georgetown banned from all Google services

#55

Post by dragonwriter »

falcolas wrote: post #54
dragonwriter wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well, it's also "their" power lines, water mains, sewer, and phone lines Monopoly utilities are different than services for which their are widespread alternatives, and Google's account-required services are neither monopolies nor regulated utilities.

The existence of alternatives does not negate a monopoly argument. Netscape, Opera, and other browsers existed when Microsoft was slapped down for IE. Google captures somewhere around 60% of the email market share - a dominant position from which they need to be careful about what actions they take. As noted in response to a sibling comment, the presence of alternative providers has proven to not to be a reliable rem…

> The existence of alternatives does not negate a monopoly argument.

It's suggestive evidence. But no actual “monopoly argument” has been made to negate.

> Netscape, Opera, and other browsers existed when Microsoft was slapped down for IE.

Sure, but IE wasn't the monopoly they got slapped down for, it was the thing they got slapped down for trying to drive with their PC operating system monopoly. So the existence and market strength f competing browsers isn't even related to the market in which the monopoly at issue existed.

Re: Statistics professor at Columbia and Georgetown banned from all Google services

#56

Post by mywittyname »

daxorid wrote: post #22

The bubble cheerleaders that dominate HN groupthink don't consider ZH a credible source, so indirect linkage was likely done to avoid the insta-flag effect.

The problem with ZH is, once people know the story, they can predict the narrative. That's a pretty clear indicator of bias.

Admittedly, in this case it was rather cut-and-dry.

Re: Statistics professor at Columbia and Georgetown banned from all Google services

#57

Post by falcolas »

ucaetano wrote: post #52
falcolas wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That Google reigns in the automated bans and automated appeals process, and provide time to do backups of their data and find an alternative solution. Ideally, if their goal is to reduce fraud and spam, they would offer people banned from their free email service a paid account under a different domain, or something similar. The longer that Google fails to take action, the more likely it is that the government will.…

So if Google blocks someone for using Gmail to share child porn, they should give the user a chance to download the content?

There is a fairly clear line between bans for illegal content, and bans for unpopular content. The two are nowhere near equivalent.

Not to mention, the user information on the account has likely already been handed off to law enforcement, at which point a grace period is of no practical consequence.

Re: Statistics professor at Columbia and Georgetown banned from all Google services

#58

Post by dang »

daxorid wrote: post #22

The bubble cheerleaders that dominate HN groupthink don't consider ZH a credible source, so indirect linkage was likely done to avoid the insta-flag effect.

Unless you have data, please don't post generalizations about HN as ammunition in an argument. Those are off-topic and nearly always false.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15066201 and marked it off-topic.

Re: Statistics professor at Columbia and Georgetown banned from all Google services

#59

Post by shitgoose »

asdffdsa321 wrote: post #4
shitgoose wrote: post #2

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-08-21/one-statistics-prof... "Have worked with both the Obama administration and advised on polling statistics for the Trump campaign " as Joseph Stalin said - "no one is innocent". just have to dig deep enough.

What's your claim?

isn't collaboration with Trump enough ground for ostracism? all of progressive humanity should spit in the face of that professor and demand justice.

on a serious note: it is quite fascinating for watch US walk down this path. i see striking similarities between what is happening now - war with monuments, renaming the streets, "tolerant" left screaming for blood, witch hunt... between all of this and life in USSR under Stalin. of course, no executions, but everything else is in place. soon you will be removing pictures of enemies of the state from schoolbooks: http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/52af668569bedd3b264...

(and this is without Photoshop btw!). stroke of a pen, and confederates are removed from the history! the thing is that in Soviet Union they couldn't keep up with removing - once you start erasing the past, you cannot stop. it is very sad and disappointing to see US going down that path. of all countries...

Re: Statistics professor at Columbia and Georgetown banned from all Google services

#60

Post by dragonwriter »

falcolas wrote: post #57
ucaetano wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if Google blocks someone for using Gmail to share child porn, they should give the user a chance to download the content?

There is a fairly clear line between bans for illegal content, and bans for unpopular content. The two are nowhere near equivalent. Not to mention, the user information on the account has likely already been handed off to law enforcement, at which point a grace period is of no practical consequence.

> There is a fairly clear line between bans for illegal content, and bans for unpopular content.

Not really, as Google has no special power to decide “illegal”. Unless you mean, a line between band directed specifically by the state (where a government orders specific accounts banned) and those decided by the service provider.

> Not to mention, the user information on the account has likely already been handed off to law enforcement, at which point a grace period is of no practical consequence.

If law enforcement disagreed with the service provider, there is a significant difference.

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