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Statistics professor at Columbia and Georgetown banned from all Google services

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Re: Statistics professor at Columbia and Georgetown banned from all Google services

#41

Post by dragonwriter »

chroem- wrote: post #23
SamReidHughes wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, because it's their computers.

This is the same argument that was used to wrongfully deny service to gay couples. You are turning a blind eye because corporations are attacking an ideology we disagree with. I do not believe that some people should be treated more equally than others.

> This is the same argument that was used to wrongfully deny service to gay couples.

It is the argument that is still lawfully used to deny service on the basis of sexual orientation in much of the country; only a minority of states have public accommodation laws under which sexual orientation is a protected class.

The balance between the state interests involvee in public accommodation laws and the free speech and free association rights they limit is a source of endless debate. The fact that the public in some part of the country has decided that one axis has circumstances which warrant such a limitation is not enough to make the case that everyone must accept that the limitation is universally justified for some other axis.

> I do not believe that some people should be treated more equally than others.

Which can be an argument for internet companies not having their free speech rights limited in order to mandate that they relay political views they disagree with as easily as it can be an argument for that imposition.

Re: Statistics professor at Columbia and Georgetown banned from all Google services

#42

Post by falcolas »

SamReidHughes wrote: post #37
falcolas wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it's also "their" power lines, water mains, sewer, and phone lines. We as a society don't let people be cut off from those services for their politics or their religion. And when people are cut off from aforementioned utilities, it's done with notice, and with the ability to have service restored when payment resumes.

There are other email providers.

The Daily Stormer has, for all its problems, shown how "just use another provider" is not a dependable solution.

Re: Statistics professor at Columbia and Georgetown banned from all Google services

#43

Post by godshatter »

Time to step up my move from gmail, I guess. Who knows what opinion I might express that might inadvertently trigger such a reaction. I'm a member of the "let them talk - they'll hang themselves with their own noose" school of thought. Google can do what they want, of course. But so can I. I've already ditched yahoo mail for fastmail and was planning on moving from gmail eventually. Guess I'll step that up.

Re: Statistics professor at Columbia and Georgetown banned from all Google services

#44

Post by dragonwriter »

falcolas wrote: post #15
SamReidHughes wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, because it's their computers.

Well, it's also "their" power lines, water mains, sewer, and phone lines. We as a society don't let people be cut off from those services for their politics or their religion. And when people are cut off from aforementioned utilities, it's done with notice, and with the ability to have service restored when payment resumes.

> Well, it's also "their" power lines, water mains, sewer, and phone lines

Monopoly utilities are different than services for which their are widespread alternatives, and Google's account-required services are neither monopolies nor regulated utilities.

Re: Statistics professor at Columbia and Georgetown banned from all Google services

#45

Post by ryandrake »

godshatter wrote: post #43

Time to step up my move from gmail, I guess. Who knows what opinion I might express that might inadvertently trigger such a reaction. I'm a member of the "let them talk - they'll hang themselves with their own noose" school of thought. Google can do what they want, of course. But so can I. I've already ditched yahoo mail for fastmail and was planning on moving from gmail eventually. Guess I'll step that up.

First step for me was moving my E-mail address to a domain I control (or at least I think I do, for now). That way, at least my identity is mine, should G decide to no longer host my content. Scary to have to think about this, but an opinion that is uncontroversial today may be unutterable tomorrow, given the relentless and accelerating march of political correctness.

Re: Statistics professor at Columbia and Georgetown banned from all Google services

#46

Post by icu »

brightball wrote: post #40
snksnk wrote: post #30

Do not rely on Google and its services if your public beliefs / opinions do not align with the establishment, are politically incorrect in even the slightest degree, or if you value your privacy. There are good alternatives (preferably open source). https://www.privacytools.io/ https://www.prism-break.org/

Have there been some HN articles about good alternatives to Google services? I seem to remember Mail-in-a-box getting some support for running your own server. I've also seen kolabnow.com looking promising.

I use protonmail.com and I'm happy with them vs Gmail.

Duck Duck Go is my default search tool.

I mainly use Firefox as a browser and I use my work Outlook for calendar/contacts.

I know I can use more open source/portable tools but it's gotten me out of the Google bubble.

Unfortunately I can't get away from Android... and I like Apple's ethics less than Alphabet, so I'm stuck there.

Re: Statistics professor at Columbia and Georgetown banned from all Google services

#47

Post by bbdbdbdbsbwhs »

ignoramceisblis wrote: post #38

caseydurfee: > this is a ludicrous accusation -- the new definition of hate speech? slackstation: > This has to be a mistake. > it was probably someone who saw one of these procative headlines and marked this blog for deletion without looking or realizing who this person was. redm: > It does indeed seem he was shut down, but it's unclear as to "why" it was done. Google's standard black box in effect. ForHackernews: >…

Here on HN I was introduced to the characterization of our current political gridlock as a "cold civil war", which is, perhaps, manifest in this post.

Re: Statistics professor at Columbia and Georgetown banned from all Google services

#48

Post by dragonwriter »

yorwba wrote: post #17
SamReidHughes wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, because it's their computers.

That's the simple answer. However, there is a trade-off between the rights of a property owner and service provider to determine how their property is used and whom they provide service to, and the rights of the public not to be arbitrarily excluded from using that property or service. That trade-off is not always made absolutely in favor of the property owner. For example, there are privately owned public spaces : h…

There seem to be three different premises being used for the argument that Google, et al., shouldn't be able to send service the way they do (or, in some cases like this one, are alleged with no clear evidence to do):

(1) the services, despite not legally being anything like privately owned public open spaces, should have an interest seized by the state and be converted into the digital analog of such spaces.

(2) despite in many cases having many robustly competing providers, the services should be subjected to utility-style regulation.

(3) political position ought to be a protected class for public accommodation discrimination, and all the acts at issue should be considered within the scope of prohibited political position discrimination under such law.

Re: Statistics professor at Columbia and Georgetown banned from all Google services

#49

Post by xiaoma »

5trokerac3 wrote: post #31
caseydurfee wrote: post #9

"If you show probability work like Hillary having lower election odds, then this is new definition of hate speech." I get that the guy is angry. I would be too if I got locked out of my accounts, but this is a ludicrous accusation -- the new definition of hate speech? "Never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity." The idea that google is waging war on this guy because of election predictions he made…

I would be inclined to believe it wasn't something very deliberate if it was only one or a few services getting shut down, but everything is fully removed. Even his [blog]( https://statisticalideas.blogspot.com ) has a "this has been removed" header. That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if there's more to this story than what's come out so far. I think it's worth following.

And due to that removal, NYT articles like this one now have broken links to his blog: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/19/business/the-stock-market...

Re: Statistics professor at Columbia and Georgetown banned from all Google services

#50

Post by ucaetano »

5trokerac3 wrote: post #31
caseydurfee wrote: post #9

"If you show probability work like Hillary having lower election odds, then this is new definition of hate speech." I get that the guy is angry. I would be too if I got locked out of my accounts, but this is a ludicrous accusation -- the new definition of hate speech? "Never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity." The idea that google is waging war on this guy because of election predictions he made…

I would be inclined to believe it wasn't something very deliberate if it was only one or a few services getting shut down, but everything is fully removed. Even his [blog]( https://statisticalideas.blogspot.com ) has a "this has been removed" header. That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if there's more to this story than what's come out so far. I think it's worth following.

> but everything is fully removed

It is always like that. Google doesn't disable a service, they disable your entire Google account.

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