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Ellen Pao: My lawsuit failed. Others won’t

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Re: Ellen Pao: My lawsuit failed. Others won’t

#401

Post by alexandercrohde »

ralusek wrote: post #41

I think that it's really interesting that conversations about venture capital and conversations about engineering both get to be lumped into a more general conversation about sexism in Silicon Valley. A lot of engineers have a good bit to say against the existence of widespread sexism in engineering, myself included. Engineering in computer science has long been represented by a nearly nonexistent barrier to entry ou…

I agree. And I hope this Ellen Pao issue cracks this system wide-open.

Because there is systematic bias in finance (would they put somebody with a tattoo on a board? somebody with a nose piercing? somebody who didn't go to college? As well as minority underrepresentation)

I can't imagine if boards did blind interviews, or even merit-based interviews.

I think the uncomfortable truth is, we in engineering try so hard to make our own little meritocracy, but we live underneath a bunch of spoiled 1% capitalers who see people who have less than a million (or of low class) as non-people and they keep wrecking our work [because they aren't actually as smart as Sergey Brin for example] and turning everything we make into ad-tech. (All the while patting themselves on the back)

Re: Ellen Pao: My lawsuit failed. Others won’t

#402

Post by aianus »

jazzyk wrote: post #347
balfirevic wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it so weird that somebody would oppose what they (apparently) consider unethical practice, even if it would benefit them?

So importing cheap labor is ethical, opposing that practice - is not ethical?

Yes? Paying someone with American citizenship more than someone with Chinese citizenship for the same work should be regarded as unethical as paying a man more than a woman or a white person more than a black person.

Re: Ellen Pao: My lawsuit failed. Others won’t

#403

Post by cuckcuckspruce »

direfungasaur wrote: post #364
strken wrote: post #183

Articles like this really make me aware that men and women like Ellen Pao and her former partners live in a separate parallel world: three degrees, $10 million golden parachutes, private jet flights to ski resorts, affairs with a creepy married co-worker in Germany, machismo-driven muscling for VC connections, bisexual finance wizards who kickstart an Ivy-League LGBT program, dominance games over which chair an exec…

obvious and unobjectionable steps like "recruit junior devs from the ranks of biology grads I don't follow how this is an obvious decision. Would you please elaborate? If the target software isn't dealing with the biology domain, why would I prefer biology grads over computer science grads? It seems like the lack of formal knowledge around CS fundamentals could prove a hindrance, while the biology knowledge wouldn't…

The vast majority of jobs now are not 'low-level hardware, highly algorithmic or heavy in the domain modeling space'. They're corporate CRUD-style apps, existing software maintenance, and other such things. There's no reason that a bright student with a biology background couldn't be a perfect fit for these sorts of things if they have some contact with a computer science class or two.

Re: Ellen Pao: My lawsuit failed. Others won’t

#404

Post by KKKKkkkk1 »

"On January 4, 2012, I sent an email to the managing partners presenting all the facts as clearly as I could and asking for substantive changes and either protection from further ostracism or help with an exit."

What is "help with an exit"? Aren't partners at VC firms free to leave?

Re: Ellen Pao: My lawsuit failed. Others won’t

#405

Post by moomin »

tnone wrote: post #276
moomin wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As others have pointed out, none of this is particularly accurate. It is, however, true that a) she was a high profile woman due to her court case b) there exists a misogynistic troll army* that targets high profile women especially in tech c) all that you describe gave them ammunition. What it didn't do was make her a target, she already was. *Someone else took issue with the phrase "paid army of trolls". The existe…

There are trolls on the internet, but pretending it's a unified front is a ploy only useful to those seeking to play out their victim status. Pao got roasted on reddit because she became the figurehead for widely unpopular community changes. At best you could say she was set up as the patsy by Reddit's board. GamerGate was a cluster fuck where existing troll groups like GNAA and BWC jumped in, as did the nihilistic l…

So I visited KIA like you suggested. It currently seems to be obsessed with nonexistent antifa violence. I'm not quite sure how that supports your claim that these things aren't all just different heads of the same shitlord hydra.

Re: Ellen Pao: My lawsuit failed. Others won’t

#406

Post by andreamez »

KKKKkkkk1 wrote: post #404

"On January 4, 2012, I sent an email to the managing partners presenting all the facts as clearly as I could and asking for substantive changes and either protection from further ostracism or help with an exit." What is "help with an exit"? Aren't partners at VC firms free to leave?

It means a help to find a job at another firm.

Re: Ellen Pao: My lawsuit failed. Others won’t

#407

Post by PopsiclePete »

abhi3 wrote: post #388
strken wrote: post #183

Articles like this really make me aware that men and women like Ellen Pao and her former partners live in a separate parallel world: three degrees, $10 million golden parachutes, private jet flights to ski resorts, affairs with a creepy married co-worker in Germany, machismo-driven muscling for VC connections, bisexual finance wizards who kickstart an Ivy-League LGBT program, dominance games over which chair an exec…

> affairs with a creepy married co-worker in Germany, machismo-driven muscling for VC connections, dominance games over which chair an exec sits in, PR firms hired to smear uppity former partners... it's like a movie. I wonder how prevalent such behavior is amongst the truly exceptional people vs the imposters who just happened to be successful due to luck and in many cases sheer force of personality (seems to still…

Why do we still give a shit how someone chooses to spend their free time? Why can't you be successful and partake in drunken S&M orgies at 3 am? As long as it's between consenting adults, I don't see why it should somehow tarnish your character.

I despise this "soccer-mom-approved" bullshit where the only acceptable free time activity is attending a little league baseball game or organizing a church picnic.

Would Einstein's work somehow be diminished if it came out that he liked to experiment with mushrooms?

I was really hoping that we'd have stopped judging people on these criteria by now. So disappointing that we haven't.

Re: Ellen Pao: My lawsuit failed. Others won’t

#408

Post by samstave »

sangnoir wrote: post #397
adekok wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> sexism in tech is a thing, and that it shouldn't be. To play devils advocate, sexism is a thing everywhere . In some cases, there are good biological reasons why men and women are treated differently, e.g. child care (mostly women) versus hard physical labor (mostly men) Where those biological differences aren't effective (e.g. typing on a keyboard), then yes, men and women should be treated the same. But even with…

Counter devils advocate - let me remap what you're saying to race: >> racism in tech is a thing, and that it shouldn't be. >To play devils advocate, racism is a thing everywhere. In some cases, there are good biological reasons why blacks and whites are treated differently, e.g. basketball (mostly blacks) versus swimming (mostly whites ) If the above doesn't sound insane to you, I don't know what to tell you.

Just because you can substitute words doesn't invalidate the point.

Replace with religion and blacks and whites with Jews and muslims, sure the paragraph can still be written as such, but still doesn't change the original meaning.

Re: Ellen Pao: My lawsuit failed. Others won’t

#409

Post by gerbilly »

Every visible trait that makes you seem different from the rest of the in-group counts as a 'demerit.'

- Are you a woman in a male dominated field? -1

- Are you a racial minority relative to the dominant group? -1

- Do you take time off in a 24/7 work culture? -1

- Are you gay? -1

- Are you transgender? -1

- Do you have a physical disability? -1

. . .

If you have enough of these, then the group will likely reject you, and will also rationalize your rejection along the lines of performance or poor 'fit.'

Groups have to take specific proactive steps to prevent this kind of behaviour from emerging naturally.

What can you do to help? If you see evidence of discriminatory behaviour: denounce it immediately and publicly.

Re: Ellen Pao: My lawsuit failed. Others won’t

#410

Post by mc32 »

strken wrote: post #183

Articles like this really make me aware that men and women like Ellen Pao and her former partners live in a separate parallel world: three degrees, $10 million golden parachutes, private jet flights to ski resorts, affairs with a creepy married co-worker in Germany, machismo-driven muscling for VC connections, bisexual finance wizards who kickstart an Ivy-League LGBT program, dominance games over which chair an exec…

What struck me was that the same Jenna Jemison obsessed CEO was one of the most ardent spokespersons for "Lean In".

As someone once said, "some of the most vocal feminist men are some of the creepiest".

It's as if it's their red herring for behaving badly.

Going from her quotes, it's as if they went out of their way to be obnoxious.

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