Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Startups should not use React

medium.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 176 posts

Re: Startups should not use React

#71

Post by raulk »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #69

FUD, FUD, FUD. Pure FUD. There are, AFAIK, no known patents on React. This means you can go ahead and sue Facebook for patent violations to your heart's content. The license they granted to you to use any of their patents applied to React (of which there are none) is terminated, and you can merrily continue using React. If this is incorrect, and Facebook actually do hold patents on React, then all of the popular alte…

> There are, AFAIK, no known patents on React.

Really? That's your argument? If there are no public patents today, does it mean there's none in the works?

What tells you there won't be a patent tomorrow?

Let me ask differently. Assuming you're a software engineer, do you pick your stack based on the status quo? Or do you pick a future-proof stack, based not only in its position today, but its projection tomorrow?

What CAN happen today is not as important as what COULD happen tomorrow, based on the legal provisions you're agreeing to by adopting React.

> If this is incorrect, and Facebook actually do hold patents on React, then all of the popular alternatives almost certainly infringe on them as well. So, the worst-case scenario is no different.

This is absolutely incorrect. It depends on the content of the patent. For example, if FB filed a patent for React Mobile, it would not affect Preact and Inferno, as these frameworks do not deal with mobile rendering.

Re: Startups should not use React

#72

Post by buremba »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #69

FUD, FUD, FUD. Pure FUD. There are, AFAIK, no known patents on React. This means you can go ahead and sue Facebook for patent violations to your heart's content. The license they granted to you to use any of their patents applied to React (of which there are none) is terminated, and you can merrily continue using React. If this is incorrect, and Facebook actually do hold patents on React, then all of the popular alte…

Then why do they bother the whole React community? Do people sue Facebook just because they use React and they spent hundreds of their lawyers hours in order to prove that there's no violation?

Re: Startups should not use React

#73

Post by nl »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #69

FUD, FUD, FUD. Pure FUD. There are, AFAIK, no known patents on React. This means you can go ahead and sue Facebook for patent violations to your heart's content. The license they granted to you to use any of their patents applied to React (of which there are none) is terminated, and you can merrily continue using React. If this is incorrect, and Facebook actually do hold patents on React, then all of the popular alte…

I use react, and I'm not planning on stopping.

Having said that your argument appears to have missed the point, since this has nothing to do with patents on React itself.

Re: Startups should not use React

#74

Post by raulk »

jasonkester wrote: post #11

I really like the idea behind this license. They want to see a world where software patents no longer exist. So they write a term into their licensing that makes it really difficult for people who do like software patents to use their stuff. I think I will move my projects over to a similar license. The only thing I would change would be to broaden it to invalidate if your company sued anybody over any patent. If eve…

I'm glad you bring this up. React adopted this license in 2014. If FB's intent was really to have all corporations adopt this model, they've had 3 years to achieve that.

However, no other company other than Palantir has adopted this model. Not even in the Valley. The truth is that they are essentially alone.

Here's the follow-up article: https://medium.com/@raulk/list-of-companies-and-popular-proj...

Re: Startups should not use React

#75

Post by matthewmacleod »

nl wrote: post #73
matthewmacleod wrote: post #69

FUD, FUD, FUD. Pure FUD. There are, AFAIK, no known patents on React. This means you can go ahead and sue Facebook for patent violations to your heart's content. The license they granted to you to use any of their patents applied to React (of which there are none) is terminated, and you can merrily continue using React. If this is incorrect, and Facebook actually do hold patents on React, then all of the popular alte…

I use react, and I'm not planning on stopping. Having said that your argument appears to have missed the point, since this has nothing to do with patents on React itself.

Having said that your argument appears to have missed the point, since this has nothing to do with patents on React itself.

Can you explain this? It's precisely about that.

The worst thing that happens if you use React and subsequently sue Facebook is that you lose the license to any patents they hold on React. If there aren't any, then you literally lose nothing.

Re: Startups should not use React

#76

Post by matthewmacleod »

buremba wrote: post #72
matthewmacleod wrote: post #69

FUD, FUD, FUD. Pure FUD. There are, AFAIK, no known patents on React. This means you can go ahead and sue Facebook for patent violations to your heart's content. The license they granted to you to use any of their patents applied to React (of which there are none) is terminated, and you can merrily continue using React. If this is incorrect, and Facebook actually do hold patents on React, then all of the popular alte…

Then why do they bother the whole React community? Do people sue Facebook just because they use React and they spent hundreds of their lawyers hours in order to prove that there's no violation?

They don't – they bother a particularly vociferous group of people who continue to shout about a non-issue.

Re: Startups should not use React

#77

Post by matthewmacleod »

raulk wrote: post #71
matthewmacleod wrote: post #69

FUD, FUD, FUD. Pure FUD. There are, AFAIK, no known patents on React. This means you can go ahead and sue Facebook for patent violations to your heart's content. The license they granted to you to use any of their patents applied to React (of which there are none) is terminated, and you can merrily continue using React. If this is incorrect, and Facebook actually do hold patents on React, then all of the popular alte…

> There are, AFAIK, no known patents on React. Really? That's your argument? If there are no public patents today, does it mean there's none in the works? What tells you there won't be a patent tomorrow? Let me ask differently. Assuming you're a software engineer, do you pick your stack based on the status quo? Or do you pick a future-proof stack, based not only in its position today, but its projection tomorrow? Wha…

What tells you there won't be a patent tomorrow?

Nothing. But that applies regardless of whether I use React, or I use any other piece of software that Facebook may or may not take a patent out on in the future. Except, in the former case, I at least had a license to begin with.

This is absolutely incorrect. It depends on the content of the patent. For example, if FB filed a patent for React Mobile, it would not affect Preact and Inferno, as these frameworks do not deal with mobile rendering.

There is a small outside chance that Facebook might patent a particular thing that React does that no other view framework does. It's unlikely to be the case, since most frameworks accomplish the same things in the same way.

Re: Startups should not use React

#78

Post by nl »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #75
nl wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use react, and I'm not planning on stopping. Having said that your argument appears to have missed the point, since this has nothing to do with patents on React itself.

Having said that your argument appears to have missed the point, since this has nothing to do with patents on React itself. Can you explain this? It's precisely about that. The worst thing that happens if you use React and subsequently sue Facebook is that you lose the license to any patents they hold on React. If there aren't any, then you literally lose nothing.

No, you are right, sorry.

I thought it removed the grant for a broader range of FB patents, but I see now that isn't the case.

Re: Startups should not use React

#79

Post by buremba »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #76
buremba wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then why do they bother the whole React community? Do people sue Facebook just because they use React and they spent hundreds of their lawyers hours in order to prove that there's no violation?

They don't – they bother a particularly vociferous group of people who continue to shout about a non-issue.

Ah, interesting. It would be nice to check if the people in this post are actually using React and also if the popularity of React is actually affected by these rants. Also, what about the non-React rule of Apache Foundation?

Re: Startups should not use React

#80

Post by bitL »

It truly seems non-mature businesses should stop relying on open-source with "baggage" and utilize only free software (AGPL3+) that has dual-licensing for commercial use with support as e.g. in Qt, unless you are 100% sure for your product lifecycle you won't get into direct business collision with the "baggage" author.
Post reply on HN