181–190 of 577 posts
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Oh, this is nothing. Back during the trial, even HN was overrun by the vilest misogynist and racist memes.
So very little has changed. HN is a cesspool when it comes to sexism and diversity.
These are clearly rich and privileged people problems.
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This xkcd came to my mind when I read that: https://xkcd.com/1019/ It's sobering to think about how easy it must be (for a sufficiently funded organisation) to effectively determine "public discourse" on a large number of topics. Then again, never underestimate just how willing people are (all on their own) to grab their virtual pitchforks without much consideration.
She was CEO during the start of a wave of subreddit bans and the dismissal of a very popular Reddit employee (Victoria). Whatever her actual level of involvement in those decisions, I think it's reasonable to say the pitchforks came out because of them. As the trolls found more real or imagined "dirt" about her, it escalated as many were eager to believe it.
I worry that the media looks at cases like this as typical of the experience of women in tech, and downplays the impact of obvious and unobjectionable steps like "recruit junior devs from the ranks of biology grads" and "give expectant mothers maternity leave" because systemic changes aren't as interesting as diversity training or a VC partner's lawsuit.
Men often have to deal with loads of shit at work also, but if you are a straight white man you don't have a handy discrimination card to play.
Discrimination and harassment laws are gender neutral and sexual preference neutral. If you are sexually harassed by someone in the workplace, female or male, you have the right to file a complaint and/or a lawsuit. If you are discriminated against because of age, disability, religion, orientation, etc, then skin color is not relevant. Skin color is relevant if you are discriminated against because of your race.
One thing to remember: it's only one side of the story from somebody who had/has serious financial interest depending on the outcome of the scandal. It kind of worries me how most comments take the allegations for granted.
If your training and professional career are all aimed at a business in which personal relationships are key, pointing out that those in it, and the relationships they promote, are toxic, isn't especially conducive to future professional development (unless you manage to overturn the entire profession -- a long shot). Pao is taking major risks here.
And I'm not particularly aware of students matriculating into English degree programs hoping to get rich writing novels and/or autobiographical accounts in the same way one hears of engineering, finance, or law degrees.
Your argument is specious.
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Given that reality is subjective, how would you separate "lots of men are being jerks and don't realise" from "lots of women are hyper-sensitive to perceived slights that aren't there and don't realise it"? I've seen so many accusations of sexism in tech by now that I tire of it. When investigated, it seems to always boil down to one of two things: 1. Some guy hit on me and I thought it was gross^Wharassment. 2. I fe…
> Nobody is ever actually offended by science I'm not going to look it up, but it wouldn't surprise me if science shows that men are more aggressive than women. It does hurt my feelings when people assume that I'm going to be aggressive/dangerous because I'm a man. There are many other examples of how science can offend people, but this one affects me the most.
Now the issue with some studies that can be considered flawed at best being used as a justification would be a problem but that's an entirely different argument here, I feel.
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> In tech people get away with wildly unprofessional behavior as long as "they get stuff done", and personally I never felt that was acceptable. As a decent software developer, if my less talented co-workers, or, god forbid, some HR-type, started telling me constantly about how I needed to be more "professional", I would hand in my resignation the next day and go somewhere that didn't absolutely suck to work.
If I understand your reply correctly, you mean to say that it's acceptable to be a total douchebag as long as you are "talented"?
I read the point that being "professional" is also about being able to do good programming work and take responsibility for what you do technically - not just appearing at the office at the right time, being courteous to other people and accepting HR buzzwords and policies and opinions without question.
It's easy to get hung up on the particulars of Pao's story and get sidetracked into defending or judging her, but I feel that is besides the point. I am more interested in the wider notion of why she wrote this article: to point out that sexism in tech is a thing, and that it shouldn't be. I'm wondering though: is this just about sexism, or is it about professionalism and maturity? Getting hit on by someone higher up…
> In tech people get away with wildly unprofessional behavior as long as "they get stuff done", and personally I never felt that was acceptable. As a decent software developer, if my less talented co-workers, or, god forbid, some HR-type, started telling me constantly about how I needed to be more "professional", I would hand in my resignation the next day and go somewhere that didn't absolutely suck to work.
You really think it's acceptable or even laudable to harass coworkers?
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> /r/fatpeoplehate and /r/revengeporn where two incredibly toxic subreddits, and I was personally happy to see them go. I agree, but we were discussing motive. It's not unfair to expect reddit's leadership to have some insight into its userbase. If I took ownership of vogue tomorrow and introduced articles about bmx racing, that would be a dumb move. I could complain that the readership doesn't understand bmx racing…
Not only are you misrepresenting what Pao did and didn't do at Reddit, your analogy is poor too. The subreddits in question were utter trash, maybe even illegal in how they targeted people, and a very poor representation of what Reddit is.
I'd disagree, the fatpeoplehate subreddit is basically the same thing as /r/trashy /r/cringeanarchy and other other popular subreddits that are regular fixtures on the popular page.
It's a thoroughly unpleasant website.
It's easy to get hung up on the particulars of Pao's story and get sidetracked into defending or judging her, but I feel that is besides the point. I am more interested in the wider notion of why she wrote this article: to point out that sexism in tech is a thing, and that it shouldn't be. I'm wondering though: is this just about sexism, or is it about professionalism and maturity? Getting hit on by someone higher up…
> In tech people get away with wildly unprofessional behavior as long as "they get stuff done", and personally I never felt that was acceptable. As a decent software developer, if my less talented co-workers, or, god forbid, some HR-type, started telling me constantly about how I needed to be more "professional", I would hand in my resignation the next day and go somewhere that didn't absolutely suck to work.