Yes. But as a man you're not allowed to complain about that. Men cannot be discriminated against or harassed.
/S
Ellen Pao: My lawsuit failed. Others won’t
91–100 of 577 posts
Re: Ellen Pao: My lawsuit failed. Others won’t
#92Are some comments moderated (deleted without the deleted mention)? There was a really interesting comment (turning into a thread) about the double standards of women but I can't find it anywhere anymore.
It's not deleted, but it's hidden by default, apparently. You have to click on the [+] in AnonNo15's post.
Re: Ellen Pao: My lawsuit failed. Others won’t
#93One thing to remember: it's only one side of the story from somebody who had/has serious financial interest depending on the outcome of the scandal. It kind of worries me how most comments take the allegations for granted.
First time that I read a comment that reminds everybody that this is only one side of the story. Do you make the same comment on all stories? and if not, why not?
I think it's clear that the other side of the story is a concept that applies chiefly to controversial stories. And this story is extremely controverial.
No wonder people rightfully remind there's another side.
Re: Ellen Pao: My lawsuit failed. Others won’t
#94Nobody I know in the SV founder/investor scene talks openly about their sex worker preferences, their porn habits or desperately tries to trick their coworkers into surprise romantic weekends together. However, I'm clearly not exposed to the demographic that is all about that, and I'd love to know more about it. What is it about that group of people that makes them behave that way? Do they feel they're too powerful t…
You wouldn't necessarily be exposed to that if you're a man or not challenging your perceived place in the hierarchy.
The talking about porn etc may just have been a clumsy attempt to put the woman in her place by making her feel uncomfortable, didn't work so he switched to talking about sex workers. It's just a tactic for asserting power and dominance. If she wasn't there taking a place he sees as for a man, it wouldn't have come up.
Re: Ellen Pao: My lawsuit failed. Others won’t
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
My point is that a lot of engineers get very annoyed when the topic of "sexism in Silicon Valley" is brought up, because anybody who is in a hiring position for specifically engineering knows exactly how utilitarian the hiring process is. For positions and treatment of individuals working in venture capital, however, I don't imagine very many engineers would have much to weigh in on. So what I'm getting at is that I'…
No, it's not utilitarian. Cultural fit dominates as a hiring criterion in software dev, and "cultural fit" can be a proxy for racism, sexism, any sort of discrimination you can think of.
I can tell you that about 90% of candidates I speak to are male, about 80% are white, Eastern European, or South & East Asian. The demographics of the hiring pool are very much aligned with the demographics of the workforce.
In terms of "cultural" fit, you're right. I do a lot of work with Hindu Indians and Muslim Pakistanis, because I have an enormous "cultural" overlap with them as a white male from Southern California. Oh, wait, I actually hired them because they were excellent engineers.
Re: Ellen Pao: My lawsuit failed. Others won’t
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
> "paid army of trolls" would definitely explain the campaign against her. She banned a number of subreddits, including /r/fatpeoplehate and revengeporn. A move that strikes pretty deep at what people consider to be an open platform where votes define everything. Subsequently she fired Victoria Taylor, an incredibly popular moderator at /r/ama. This combined with the perceived idea that threads discussing these issue…
The way she was treated, though, was disgusting. I have zero doubt that her gender/ethnicity was a major motivating factor for the majority of people involved in this backlash and that a white male in the same position would have pretty much gotten a pass from the same people. /r/fatpeoplehate and /r/revengeporn where two incredibly toxic subreddits, and I was personally happy to see them go.
Yeah, what a shitshow. It's a testament to the strength of her character that she still hangs out and posts sometimes. I would have burned that bridge with fury.
(Something, by the way, I would have been afforded as a dude, and that Pao would have surely been ridiculed for until the end of her career. It's sad that institutional forces have forced her to act "distant, even a bit robotic" in these situations.)
Re: Ellen Pao: My lawsuit failed. Others won’t
#97Yes. But as a man you're not allowed to complain about that. Men cannot be discriminated against or harassed. /S
There are lawsuits filed consistently in courts throughout the US that say differently.
Re: Ellen Pao: My lawsuit failed. Others won’t
#98Re: Ellen Pao: My lawsuit failed. Others won’t
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
I read it as "our biases are subconscious". A lot of the white men being jerks to their female and ethnic minority colleagues aren't aware they're doing it, or if they are it's justified because it's a "meritocracy" and the techbros ascribe significantly more merit to whiteness and especially maleness.
Given that reality is subjective, how would you separate "lots of men are being jerks and don't realise" from "lots of women are hyper-sensitive to perceived slights that aren't there and don't realise it"? I've seen so many accusations of sexism in tech by now that I tire of it. When investigated, it seems to always boil down to one of two things: 1. Some guy hit on me and I thought it was gross^Wharassment. 2. I fe…
> Nobody is ever actually offended by science
I'm not going to look it up, but it wouldn't surprise me if science shows that men are more aggressive than women.
It does hurt my feelings when people assume that I'm going to be aggressive/dangerous because I'm a man.
There are many other examples of how science can offend people, but this one affects me the most.
Re: Ellen Pao: My lawsuit failed. Others won’t
#100Interesting read. I wonder if the "paid army of trolls" she mentions followed her to Reddit. That would definitely explain the campaign against her.
> "paid army of trolls" would definitely explain the campaign against her. She banned a number of subreddits, including /r/fatpeoplehate and revengeporn. A move that strikes pretty deep at what people consider to be an open platform where votes define everything. Subsequently she fired Victoria Taylor, an incredibly popular moderator at /r/ama. This combined with the perceived idea that threads discussing these issue…
As others have pointed out, none of this is particularly accurate. It is, however, true that a) she was a high profile woman due to her court case b) there exists a misogynistic troll army* that targets high profile women especially in tech c) all that you describe gave them ammunition. What it didn't do was make her a target, she already was.
*Someone else took issue with the phrase "paid army of trolls". The existence of the gamergate/alt-right/etcetera troll army isn't really in dispute. Equally it's well known that actors foreign and domestic have been pushing these viewpoints with actual cash. So while I don't know one way or another whether the alt-right troll army that targets Pao has paid components, I don't think it sounds beyond the realms of plausibility either.