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Sperm Count in Western Men Has Dropped Over 50 Percent Since 1973, Paper Finds

nytimes.com

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Re: Sperm Count in Western Men Has Dropped Over 50 Percent Since 1973, Paper Finds

#61

Post by weirdstuff »

hyperdunc wrote: post #4

I've noticed over the last 20 or so years that men in the West, in general, appear increasingly effeminate. I've also noticed that a lot of male pop stars have really high voices. I've long suspected these observations are more than cultural. Recent studies seem to back this intuition.

I can't help but have noticed that same thing, anecdotally (very anecdotally, but seems seems so pronounced that I'm commenting). Higher voice registers, smaller frames, more effeminate postures and body language.

Re: Sperm Count in Western Men Has Dropped Over 50 Percent Since 1973, Paper Finds

#62

Post by Houshalter »

dv_dt wrote: post #30
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #11

Previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14855796 As I said in that thread, this is another statistic that had a rapid and precipitous change starting in the early 1970s. I've stated this elsewhere, but it's like something(s) happened the late 60s/early 70s that totally transformed our world and I have no clue what they were nor can I find anyone who has written about it. Wealth inequality [1], Real Wage stag…

One hypothesis, the rise of plastics really started to explode in to 40-50s and the first children to have grown up amidst that would have come of age starting in to 60s. Estrogen mimics are often emitted by plastics and can interfere with testosterone. It would be interesting to see if there are any differential analysis that can be done with more remote populations of humans which maybe don't have exposure.

Here's a theory that it's caused by jet fuel: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3587983/

Re: Sperm Count in Western Men Has Dropped Over 50 Percent Since 1973, Paper Finds

#63

Post by xor1 »

hyperdunc wrote: post #4

I've noticed over the last 20 or so years that men in the West, in general, appear increasingly effeminate. I've also noticed that a lot of male pop stars have really high voices. I've long suspected these observations are more than cultural. Recent studies seem to back this intuition.

I had gynecomastia from when I was 10 years old up until I was in my early 20s, when I had surgery to remove it. Wonder if I can blame plastics for that.

Re: Sperm Count in Western Men Has Dropped Over 50 Percent Since 1973, Paper Finds

#64

Post by icelancer »

brian-armstrong wrote: post #28
hyperdunc wrote: post #4

I've noticed over the last 20 or so years that men in the West, in general, appear increasingly effeminate. I've also noticed that a lot of male pop stars have really high voices. I've long suspected these observations are more than cultural. Recent studies seem to back this intuition.

Is this sort of pseudoscientific anecdata what passes for discourse on HN now? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - where's yours?

This is only the most egregious comment in here, not the only one in general. Someone above is talking about gut microbiome (which we know vanishingly little about) as being a primary causer, diet is apparently 100% the issue (colinear effects in other populations throw water on this theory pretty hard), plastics are a real problem (no evidence supports this, though there is a significant lag), etc.

Basically no one wants to just say "No one knows, let's keep researching." Everyone has to chime in. That'd be one thing if it was relegated to HN or forums, but it's true in the "scientific" community [1] and the media as well; perhaps moreso.

[1] Of which I am sadly a part of, so don't think I am an anti-science person, just anti-parts of this ridiculous industry.

Re: Sperm Count in Western Men Has Dropped Over 50 Percent Since 1973, Paper Finds

#65

Post by will_brown »

Houshalter wrote: post #54
will_brown wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As to (3) obesity, one of the most obvious contributing factors is the increased refined sugar consumption. People are poisoning their mind and bodies. And I know it's controversial and since everyone consumes sugar, everyone gets sensitive and defensive. However, in the 60's/70's nonalcoholic fatty liver disease did not exist in children nor did childhood type 2 diabeties, as to the former the first case in children…

This is the common theory but it doesn't really hold up. The weight of lab animals is also increasing. Even though we have records showing they haven't changed their diets or routines significantly. Chimpanzees in particular, the animal most closely related to humans, have increased in weight drastically each decade. EDIT: Source https://aeon.co/essays/blaming-individuals-for-obesity-may-b... >As were laboratory maca…

Well I imagine, if true, chimps aren't mysteriously gaining weight it would be related to their diet. Very likely they eat a fruit heavy diet, that's sugar. Unlikely are these wild fruits, but sugar laden industrial farmed fruits.

Now if you don't think there is a difference in fruit today versus the fruits of yesteryear just look at the fruit itself. The bananas you eat today are not the same type from 100 years ago which died out do to disease; look at a genetically modified seedless watermelon today vs the nearly hollow watermelons depicted in (fruit bowl) art even a couple hundred years ago; or even a high glycemic vegetable such as a carrot did you know the wild carrots weren't even orange but tiny little white roots looking nothing like the elongated thing you buy in the store today?

See the difference for yourself: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3428689/What-...

Re: Sperm Count in Western Men Has Dropped Over 50 Percent Since 1973, Paper Finds

#66

Post by thesagan »

brian-armstrong wrote: post #28
hyperdunc wrote: post #4

I've noticed over the last 20 or so years that men in the West, in general, appear increasingly effeminate. I've also noticed that a lot of male pop stars have really high voices. I've long suspected these observations are more than cultural. Recent studies seem to back this intuition.

Is this sort of pseudoscientific anecdata what passes for discourse on HN now? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - where's yours?

I get where you're coming from, but the increased effemination in men has been so pronounced in my own experience over the past 20 years I'm still chiming in on it.

Re: Sperm Count in Western Men Has Dropped Over 50 Percent Since 1973, Paper Finds

#67

Post by [deleted] »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #11

Previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14855796 As I said in that thread, this is another statistic that had a rapid and precipitous change starting in the early 1970s. I've stated this elsewhere, but it's like something(s) happened the late 60s/early 70s that totally transformed our world and I have no clue what they were nor can I find anyone who has written about it. Wealth inequality [1], Real Wage stag…

[deleted]

Re: Sperm Count in Western Men Has Dropped Over 50 Percent Since 1973, Paper Finds

#68

Post by Houshalter »

will_brown wrote: post #65
Houshalter wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the common theory but it doesn't really hold up. The weight of lab animals is also increasing. Even though we have records showing they haven't changed their diets or routines significantly. Chimpanzees in particular, the animal most closely related to humans, have increased in weight drastically each decade. EDIT: Source https://aeon.co/essays/blaming-individuals-for-obesity-may-b... >As were laboratory maca…

Well I imagine, if true, chimps aren't mysteriously gaining weight it would be related to their diet. Very likely they eat a fruit heavy diet, that's sugar. Unlikely are these wild fruits, but sugar laden industrial farmed fruits. Now if you don't think there is a difference in fruit today versus the fruits of yesteryear just look at the fruit itself. The bananas you eat today are not the same type from 100 years ago…

Fruits haven't significantly increased in size or sugar content since the 70s though. And it doesn't explain the increase in weight for other animals that don't eat fruit, e.g. dogs.

EDIT: And this article is terrible. E.g. the painting of the watermelon is just a regular watermelon just like those grown today: http://static.boredpanda.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/07... That's just what it looks like when it grows without enough water. Most of those examples are things that happened centuries ago.

Re: Sperm Count in Western Men Has Dropped Over 50 Percent Since 1973, Paper Finds

#69

Post by bonzini »

rtpg wrote: post #52
lsc wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an argument that the problems people see with both 'real wage stagnation' and 'increased divorce rates' are really problems caused by measuring the wrong thing. The argument is quite clear when it comes to the divorce rate; Being alone, if financially tenable, is better than being in a bad relationship, so if you make being alone financially tenable for another half of the population, divorce rates will go u…

RE your second argument: population increases have always been happening, so why would it only be from the 70s that it would finally depress wage growth?

Exponential growth won't last forever. Pretty much everything that looks exponential is actually logistic. [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logistic_function

Re: Sperm Count in Western Men Has Dropped Over 50 Percent Since 1973, Paper Finds

#70

Post by seandoe »

RichardHeart wrote: post #2

Could this be from progress in pornography?

was wondering the same thing. Not from some complex, hormonal thing, but more like men are possibly masturbating a lot more with porn's technological progress. Are the studies controlled for sex/masturbation frequency? ...whoops, I guess the study did account for it.
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