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Sperm Count in Western Men Has Dropped Over 50 Percent Since 1973, Paper Finds

nytimes.com

41–50 of 148 posts

Re: Sperm Count in Western Men Has Dropped Over 50 Percent Since 1973, Paper Finds

#41
The phathalates hypothesis sounds plausible to me. However, it will be a combination of factors social, economical and biological. One hypothesis, I have been thinking of is about relation between the age of the father when the child was conceived and it's correlation with sperm count of the child when he grows up.

I am not sure if this data was collected in the study. Does anyone know about any such study?

Re: Sperm Count in Western Men Has Dropped Over 50 Percent Since 1973, Paper Finds

#42
post #26

I was surprised to see Brazil, Chile and Mexico categorized as 'Non-Western countries'.

Here's a map of Western countries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world#/media/File:The_...

That's a silly map, given there's no actual authority to define this and the rules are arbitrary.

Here's another map of Western countries: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/91/The_West...

The definition you're alluding to seems to be widespread within the US, but is by no means the most widespread on a global level.

I think this map is closer to what most people consider western: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/Westernc...

Re: Sperm Count in Western Men Has Dropped Over 50 Percent Since 1973, Paper Finds

#43

Previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14855796 As I said in that thread, this is another statistic that had a rapid and precipitous change starting in the early 1970s. I've stated this elsewhere, but it's like something(s) happened the late 60s/early 70s that totally transformed our world and I have no clue what they were nor can I find anyone who has written about it. Wealth inequality [1], Real Wage stag…

Economic changes can probably be tracked back to Stagflation[1] and the 1973 Oil Crisis[2], and the associated rise of Neoliberalism as evidenced, early on, through the Nixon Crisis[3] and formation of the Trilateral Commission[4]. Of course there was a huge amount of social change going on at the same time, much of which was interrelated with the economic changes.

As an example of how some viewed these challenges, the Trilateral Commission's 'Crisis of Democracy' paper[5] - though heavily criticised from both sides of politics[6] - offers some interesting insight into the perspectives held by a number of highly influential people of the period.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stagflation#Explaining_the_197...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_oil_crisis

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixon_shock

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trilateral_Commission

[5] http://trilateral.org/download/doc/crisis_of_democracy.pdf

[6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trilateral_Commission#Criticis...

Re: Sperm Count in Western Men Has Dropped Over 50 Percent Since 1973, Paper Finds

#44

I've noticed over the last 20 or so years that men in the West, in general, appear increasingly effeminate. I've also noticed that a lot of male pop stars have really high voices. I've long suspected these observations are more than cultural. Recent studies seem to back this intuition.

Auto-tune is probably more of an explanation than hormones. I've been to more than one of concerts in recent years where the lead singer couldn't actually hit the high notes live.

Re: Sperm Count in Western Men Has Dropped Over 50 Percent Since 1973, Paper Finds

#45
Quote from article (meant as response to AndrewKemendo): "Phthalates are a group of chemicals used to make plastics more flexible and harder to break. In several studies over the last two decades, they have been shown to disrupt the operation of male hormones like testosterone and have been linked to genital birth defects in male infants.

Dr. Swan, who conducted a 2008 study about phthalate exposure, said that scientists have had the ability to measure exposure to plasticizers only since about 2000, via urine. That has led to a 20-year lag in the process since researchers cannot enroll men to produce sperm until they are in their 20s.

That evidence is the “missing piece of the puzzle,” she said."

Here in the Netherlands several partie are trying ot get hormone disturbing substances on the political agenda but even BPA is apparently not even illegal here. There was even a show where they measured BPA in the urine of politicians and still, very little attention is given to such substances. [0]

[https://radar.avrotros.nl/uitzendingen/gemist/14-11-2016/hor...]

Re: Sperm Count in Western Men Has Dropped Over 50 Percent Since 1973, Paper Finds

#46

I've noticed over the last 20 or so years that men in the West, in general, appear increasingly effeminate. I've also noticed that a lot of male pop stars have really high voices. I've long suspected these observations are more than cultural. Recent studies seem to back this intuition.

Is this sort of pseudoscientific anecdata what passes for discourse on HN now? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - where's yours?

The rate of males identifying as gay has been rising either because of the changing culture, and/or something in the water.

Such a statement claiming western men as becoming more effeminate is obvious.

Re: Sperm Count in Western Men Has Dropped Over 50 Percent Since 1973, Paper Finds

#47

Previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14855796 As I said in that thread, this is another statistic that had a rapid and precipitous change starting in the early 1970s. I've stated this elsewhere, but it's like something(s) happened the late 60s/early 70s that totally transformed our world and I have no clue what they were nor can I find anyone who has written about it. Wealth inequality [1], Real Wage stag…

There is an argument that the problems people see with both 'real wage stagnation' and 'increased divorce rates' are really problems caused by measuring the wrong thing.

The argument is quite clear when it comes to the divorce rate; Being alone, if financially tenable, is better than being in a bad relationship, so if you make being alone financially tenable for another half of the population, divorce rates will go up, and in that case, it becomes quite difficult to argue that increased divorce rates are bad. In fact, one could argue the opposite, that increased divorce rates indicate people being able to leave unpleasant relationships.

The argument is a lot less clear for wages. The strongest argument, I think, is that if you are measuring average per worker pay, women on average make less than men, and thus you will get a lower rate for 'average worker' than for 'average male worker' - even today, those numbers are stark, and before the 1970s, your 'average worker' demographics looked a lot more like what you'd see in today's "average male worker" statistics; I think you'll find that 'average male pay' has climbed rather a lot more than 'average pay'

The other argument, I think, is a lot weaker; if you double the number of workers, some would argue, you will naturally depress wages. (Of course, others would argue that the secondary effects of having more workers in an economy would make the economy more wealthy and drive wages up overall.)

Re: Sperm Count in Western Men Has Dropped Over 50 Percent Since 1973, Paper Finds

#48

Previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14855796 As I said in that thread, this is another statistic that had a rapid and precipitous change starting in the early 1970s. I've stated this elsewhere, but it's like something(s) happened the late 60s/early 70s that totally transformed our world and I have no clue what they were nor can I find anyone who has written about it. Wealth inequality [1], Real Wage stag…

If you are to look specifically at the health angle (and it surprisingly even affects our mental health), we have suffered a double whammy of the change in diet plus the widespread use of antibiotics.

It is becoming increasingly clear that our gut microbiome has a wide-ranging affect on many aspects of our health; and that the standard western diet is not good for a healthy gut microbiome and that taking antibiotics can have a detrimental affect on the gut microbiome as well.

Our gut bacteria are not only responsible for digesting much of the foods we eat. They regulate our immune systems. They also create chemicals that pass into our blood steam, and even pass the blood brain barrier, affecting our behavior.

There has been a severe decline in the health of our gut microbiome in recent generations. The extent this has had an impact on our lives is yet to be determined ––

I suspect the rise of food allergy problems is at least one of the issues. There is also the possibility that this has been a major factor in the rise of autism (which is commonly accompanied by IBD), as well as the significant increase in IBD diseases.

It certainly seems possible to me that sperm count could be affected by our body's digestion system, and the health of the gut microbiome that is so central to it.

Re: Sperm Count in Western Men Has Dropped Over 50 Percent Since 1973, Paper Finds

#49
post #19
post #9

Anxiously awaiting the first comment on the feminizing effects of soy...

Here you go: http://www.menshealth.com/nutrition/soys-negative-effects

In particular, the article says:

"In a Harvard study published last year in the journal Human Reproduction, Jorge E. Chavarro, M.D., Sc.D., and his colleagues found a strong association between men’s consumption of soy foods and decreased sperm counts."

The study in question seems to be this:

https://academic.oup.com/humrep/article/23/11/2584/2913898/S...

"The intake of 15 soy-based foods in the previous 3 months was assessed for 99 male partners of subfertile couples who presented for semen analyses to the Massachusetts General Hospital Fertility Center. ... There was an inverse association between soy food intake and sperm concentration that remained significant after accounting for age, abstinence time, body mass index, caffeine and alcohol intake and smoking. In the multivariate-adjusted analyses, men in the highest category of soy food intake had 41 million sperm/ml less than men who did not consume soy foods." (For reference, various sources say anywhere from 20 to 150 million sperm/ml is average.)

Contrariwise, the Wiki article on soy points to this meta-study (from four years before the above):

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20378106

"Clinical evidence also indicates that isoflavones have no effect on sperm or semen parameters, although only three intervention studies were identified and none were longer than 3 months in duration."

Here's another from a few months after the meta-study:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19819436

That last one seems to be a randomized controlled study, where they gave a bunch of college men either milk protein or one of two variants of soy protein.

I don't know if there's anything in soy that isn't in the "soy protein isolates" from the last study. If there isn't, then the last study seems like strong evidence. The first one could conceivably come down to some sort of selection bias.

Re: Sperm Count in Western Men Has Dropped Over 50 Percent Since 1973, Paper Finds

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I saw that too... I don’t understand. Is Western a political definition?

The term 'west' outdates the discovery of America and no longer has anything to do with Geography. It used to mean western Europe. Now it essentially means western Europe, canada, australia, and america. All of which have cultural roots in Western europe and liberalism etc.

Yep, and "South" is a somewhat archaic term to refer to developing countries. Australia is not of the "South" despite being in the southern hemisphere.[1]

It's also weird to refer to the Asian countries north-west of Australia as "Far East"; though that usage is also fading.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North%E2%80%93South_divide

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