that's why a lot of people opt-out of working
people are not stupid if it's not worth their time they rather not do
The rich are hoarding economic growth
41–50 of 157 posts
Re: The rich are hoarding economic growth
#421% real income growth per year is still fairly substantial IMO. Over a 41 year career, your purchasing power goes up by half, yet that's treated as "stagnating" which implies something far worse than 1% per year.
It's nothing, if your expenses grow at higher rate.
Re: The rich are hoarding economic growth
#43The title and the tone of the OP are a bit inflammatory for my taste, but the data and graphs from the research paper are eye-opening: most economic growth in the US over the past three decades has indeed gone to the top 1%, and particularly to the top 0.01%, leaving everyone else behind.[1] Here's the money shot: https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/9013427/Sc... However, rather than debate the causes o…
For every problem there is a solution which is simple, elegant, and completely wrong.
So here's my attempt:
1. Remove subsidies including tax writeoffs like depreciation. Either an asset brings value or it doesn't.
2. Tax revenue not profits. Either you make a profit selling a thing or you don't. Fancy tricks like buying an item from a fully owned subsidiary and selling it at a loss to compensate for profits from services is not realising the value your services and products bring to the economy
3. Change the paradigm from employees serve the company to companies serve the employees. Companies are a way to insulate participants from economic risk of a capital-intensive activity, not a way to structure tax affairs.
Edited for formatting
Re: The rich are hoarding economic growth
#44The title and the tone of the OP are a bit inflammatory for my taste, but the data and graphs from the research paper are eye-opening: most economic growth in the US over the past three decades has indeed gone to the top 1%, and particularly to the top 0.01%, leaving everyone else behind.[1] Here's the money shot: https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/9013427/Sc... However, rather than debate the causes o…
Current government policies penalize income (39.6% at the top bracket) and subsidize company-sponsored non-monetary benefits (health, dental, vision, meals, commuter benefits, ESPP, 401k matching, ISOs, NSOs), so not all that surprising that workers see less income and more of non-monetary benefits as a result.
The workable solution through a tax policy might include reducing the number of brackets for personal income tax, dropping personal income tax rates within those brackets, and removing deductibility of all aforementioned corporate benefits as a trade-off.
I don't see a wave of pent-up consumer demand though, as cheap and easy credit de-couples spending and earning. A lot of economists predicted boost in consumer spending as oil (and gas) prices fell over the past few years, but in reality all that spending had already taken place years before, and consumers simply used gas savings to deleverage their credit accounts. Household debt is peaking again https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/17/business/dealbook/househo... so any additional savings or boosts in earnings will likely go towards deleveraging.
Re: The rich are hoarding economic growth
#45This is why I appreciate the $15 an hour minimum wage movement. Paying people more is better then taxing the rich more. The super-rich own congress but at the city and State level there is depending upon the state some room to grow wages. Higher wages equals fewer people on public subsidies which is good for cities and states.
The problem is that if you set a minimum wage that is higher than the real value of the work performed, it means those jobs just simply won't exist anymore.
As far as I'm aware, none of the studies on increasing minimum wage have shown this.
Re: The rich are hoarding economic growth
#46We know there are serious problems. I think the general direction we are going to try to solve them is a good start, but without severely improving the current plans, will be completely inadequate and repeat history in some ways.
Many people have looked at the US' economic situation and compared it to China or other areas and predicted that the relatively high wealth and consumption in the US just cannot continue due to things like math (large deficits, low production of real goods, retired workers) and political pressure. The expectation for many is that there will eventually start to be a much more equitable distribution of resources and power towards places like China and/or Africa or India. This will mean there is significantly less real wealth for Americans. This, combined with the pressure to increase sustainability, means that the real world economy in the US is either not growing or growing very sluggishly.
When the economy is not really growing, our current systems don't function well, people start looking to conserve and cooperate rather than compete so much. A general trend of increasing socialism is good for the US to some degree I believe, but won't solve the problems.
What we have now are very large technopolies like Amazon, Google and Uber controlling large segments of our economy. Because the power is so concentrated, it is actually almost as bad as having government agencies control these things. Now people are talking about technocracy, which is essentially high-tech communism.
I used to advocate for a Resource Based Economy and all of that stuff, and I still think RBE and technocratic-type ideas are a good starting point to think about solutions, but it seems like the thought process is stuck in the 50s. Having very large organizations controlling everything is not going to work out,no matter how much technology you add to it.
The real problem for America is going to be less fossil fuels being able to be imported. Just because there is a big imbalance now, and unless we actually start nuking countries, within a few decades the demands will be such that those countries are forced to fight the US for those resources. In order to avoid WWII there has to be a plan that allows the US and other high-consumption countries to significantly reduce real-world consumption and still have functioning economies.
The problem is that we are looking at these giant tech companies just becoming more official and entrenched. This does give us platforms for efficiency, but the fact that these are centralized organizations means big problems in terms of power distribution and freedom as well as the evolvability of systems.
The solution is going to be technical upgrades to our social frameworks. A concrete example: Amazon has a streamlined website and logistic network. Instead of leaving this in the hands of one company, we need to come up with equivalent decentralized distributed protocols and systems that accomplish the same things without making Bezos the unofficial Minister of Distribution. I'm not saying it's easy, because we need systems with almost the same level of holistic integration and analysis on some levels that Amazon has, but still flexible enough to evolve and allow freedom.
We are also going to need these advanced distributed but holistic on some level evolvable systems to be properly integrated into societal structures in order to properly measure and plan if we want to have something like universal basic income. Although I must also say that we need also to facilitate free competition more at the same time otherwise the technopolies strangleholds prevent most from rising past the basic level and participating.
Re: The rich are hoarding economic growth
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
What labor has value below the required amount to exist as a human? I think the reasoning is - if it's worth being done, it's worth paying someone a meager living wage to have it done.
While I agree in principle, the counter-argument is that you're just going to end up with that job going overseas or getting automated. Basically, if you need something done and it's only worth $10/hour to you to have it done, but no one near you will do it for less than $15/hour, either 1) it won't get done and that $10/hour economic input is lost, or 2) you'll find a way to get it done for $10/hour or less via mean…
Actually you get 3) the cost of the output of that process goes up, leading to a small price rise to the end user.
Re: The rich are hoarding economic growth
#48Why is there no talk about the dramatic increase in the supply of workers over the last 40 years? Globalization has brought millions out of poverty and those people are now competing with Americans when they wouldn't before. It makes sense from an economic standpoint that the price of labor would not rise when the supply is increased and is likely the cause of income inequality in the US.
> It makes sense from an economic standpoint that the price of labor would not rise when the supply is increased and is likely the cause of income inequality in the US.
So why are CEO salaries still going up? Is there not increased competition for C-level positions in companies from globalization? If not, why not?
Re: The rich are hoarding economic growth
#49Why is there no talk about the dramatic increase in the supply of workers over the last 40 years? Globalization has brought millions out of poverty and those people are now competing with Americans when they wouldn't before. It makes sense from an economic standpoint that the price of labor would not rise when the supply is increased and is likely the cause of income inequality in the US.
Another factor I don't see talked about is the increase in women's participation in the workforce. When wages were higher it was common to only have one breadwinner in the family. Today women are more likely to get a job (or two), which is bound to depress wages. The perverse effect of lower wages is that families are forced to take on more jobs than they did before, which depresses wages further. Not sure if there is causation between women's participation and wage stagnation, but logically it seems possible that this would cause a downward spiral. The more wages suffer, the more jobs/hours/years people are forced to seek to work, the lower the wages.
Re: The rich are hoarding economic growth
#50The title and the tone of the OP are a bit inflammatory for my taste, but the data and graphs from the research paper are eye-opening: most economic growth in the US over the past three decades has indeed gone to the top 1%, and particularly to the top 0.01%, leaving everyone else behind.[1] Here's the money shot: https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/9013427/Sc... However, rather than debate the causes o…
Raise taxes on the 0.01%, it's the only way.
Most of them derive annual income via capital gains, and it's pretty much a voluntary tax. One either borrows against the asset, so zero selling occurs, or harvests some tax losses from other assets before they execute a sale on an appreciated asset.