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The Darknet and the Future of Content Distribution (2002) [pdf]

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Re: The Darknet and the Future of Content Distribution (2002) [pdf]

#11

Post by lumberjack »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #2

The scariest project I've ever seen is OpenBazaar. It's a decentralized marketplace. It does for physical things what Napster did for music. Not the best analogy, since you have to pay for the things, but it's not far off. Right now they only sell trinkets, like sunglasses. But both the founders are former spooks. They live in fairfax, 20min from Langley. And they're adding Tor and Tails support in the next release.…

I find the possibility of an untraceable assassination market much more worrying. There are currently, would-be-customers of such a service who lack the necessarily contacts, and there are plenty of would-be-contract-killers who would take such a "gig".

A possible assassination market that is untraceable might facilitate trade between these two sets of entities which is of course a good thing, because all trade is good.

Re: The Darknet and the Future of Content Distribution (2002) [pdf]

#12

Post by ryanlol »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #2

The scariest project I've ever seen is OpenBazaar. It's a decentralized marketplace. It does for physical things what Napster did for music. Not the best analogy, since you have to pay for the things, but it's not far off. Right now they only sell trinkets, like sunglasses. But both the founders are former spooks. They live in fairfax, 20min from Langley. And they're adding Tor and Tails support in the next release.…

>all the darknet markets are apparently dead right now

Dream Market is still up and has been since 2013.

Re: The Darknet and the Future of Content Distribution (2002) [pdf]

#13

Post by tylersmith »

swiley wrote: post #3
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #2

The scariest project I've ever seen is OpenBazaar. It's a decentralized marketplace. It does for physical things what Napster did for music. Not the best analogy, since you have to pay for the things, but it's not far off. Right now they only sell trinkets, like sunglasses. But both the founders are former spooks. They live in fairfax, 20min from Langley. And they're adding Tor and Tails support in the next release.…

Every time I've tried to use OpenBazaar it's been a real mess. Not the "unpolished open source project" kind of mess but the "why the fuck did you think that would have been a good idea?" kind of mess. The very first time I went to use it the ".config" file just automatically ran sudo and one of the OSX package managers (whichever one I didn't have installed.) If I had typed my password into the password prompt (whic…

I agree version 1 isn't great. We're alpha testing version 2 and so far it's being received a lot better.

Re: The Darknet and the Future of Content Distribution (2002) [pdf]

#14

Post by tylersmith »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #4
swiley wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time I've tried to use OpenBazaar it's been a real mess. Not the "unpolished open source project" kind of mess but the "why the fuck did you think that would have been a good idea?" kind of mess. The very first time I went to use it the ".config" file just automatically ran sudo and one of the OSX package managers (whichever one I didn't have installed.) If I had typed my password into the password prompt (whic…

Thank goodness. I can only hope they're incompetent. You know what? We should build one. Right now. Otherwise someone else will. If we become the defacto standard, we can at least have some controls in place. You might argue that would disqualify the implementation, but network effects are very powerful. eBay is still eBay.

"I can only hope they're incompetent."

Not all of us. There are multiple companies and a lot of people working on OpenBazaar of varying skills. Our new major version fixes a number of issues with version 1 which was built with much less funding and man power.

Re: The Darknet and the Future of Content Distribution (2002) [pdf]

#15

Post by tylersmith »

whiddershins wrote: post #8
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank goodness. I can only hope they're incompetent. You know what? We should build one. Right now. Otherwise someone else will. If we become the defacto standard, we can at least have some controls in place. You might argue that would disqualify the implementation, but network effects are very powerful. eBay is still eBay.

If you need random help, I'm in.

Edit: I did not believe sillysaurus was being serious. I am not trying to poach.

If you'd like to work on a decentralized marketplace we'd love to have you help out with OpenBazaar. Feel free to join our Slack and discuss what you might like to work on if you'd like.

Re: The Darknet and the Future of Content Distribution (2002) [pdf]

#16

Post by sillysaurus3 »

tylersmith wrote: post #15
whiddershins wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you need random help, I'm in.

Edit: I did not believe sillysaurus was being serious. I am not trying to poach. If you'd like to work on a decentralized marketplace we'd love to have you help out with OpenBazaar. Feel free to join our Slack and discuss what you might like to work on if you'd like.

I mean, this is the perfect example of why not to join your project. You're here because we're talking about you. You made this offer because this is a subthread about displacing you, specifically. I don't trust people who are so opportunistic, and there are many reasons not to let you get control over a network that may be with us for the next hundred years.

How about you go work on your project run by former spooks, and I'll start my own, and we'll see who comes out on top? You're also the beficiary of investors. Ask yourself: why are they investing in you? Your stated goal is to never turn a profit, ever. You've also foregone any ICO attempt, which is free money. Why? Because you can't, because if people start using your project with your new Tor support, you'll be a co-conspirator in a drug distribution network.

But you don't just come out and say this. You're not straightforward. It's fake idealism, and that quality more than any other is what motivates me to compete here.

The fact that you're worried is even more evidence that we were onto something. Maybe others will join me, if I show convincing progress.

Or maybe not, and you'll be the eBay of the future. Considering your founders' ties, that's pretty unsettling. So why don't you join me instead?

This is a standing invitation to all readers: email me. Let's figure out how to organize this and make it work.

Re: The Darknet and the Future of Content Distribution (2002) [pdf]

#17

Post by yters »

pasbesoin wrote: post #6
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #2

The scariest project I've ever seen is OpenBazaar. It's a decentralized marketplace. It does for physical things what Napster did for music. Not the best analogy, since you have to pay for the things, but it's not far off. Right now they only sell trinkets, like sunglasses. But both the founders are former spooks. They live in fairfax, 20min from Langley. And they're adding Tor and Tails support in the next release.…

This isn't a perfect solution, but ultimately, I think, we are going to have to move in the direction where 13 year olds don't want to buy heroin. And that's going to be based not on punishment, but on better alternatives and honest information. And a better community of stronger social connection. I think of the whole "sex ed" debate. Studies and statistics show that providing information -- and practical alternativ…

Afghanistan has free flowing drugs and most other things we outlaw in our society such as pedophilia and laissez faire murder. In theory it is a libertarians paradise.

Re: The Darknet and the Future of Content Distribution (2002) [pdf]

#18

Post by tylersmith »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #16
tylersmith wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Edit: I did not believe sillysaurus was being serious. I am not trying to poach. If you'd like to work on a decentralized marketplace we'd love to have you help out with OpenBazaar. Feel free to join our Slack and discuss what you might like to work on if you'd like.

I mean, this is the perfect example of why not to join your project. You're here because we're talking about you. You made this offer because this is a subthread about displacing you, specifically. I don't trust people who are so opportunistic, and there are many reasons not to let you get control over a network that may be with us for the next hundred years. How about you go work on your project run by former spooks…

I'm not sure what you mean. I browse on HN a lot and post fairly frequently. I was surprised to see our project as the topic of the first comment on this article. It's not like I was seeking it out to pounce on a PR attempt.

Feel free to start your own project and compete; that would be great. We have a number of competitors and we're all driving the ecosystem forward.

"Your stated goal is to never turn a profit, ever."

I don't know where you got that idea. The company I work for, OB1, does certainly intend to make a profit at some point.

"You've also foregone any ICO attempt, which is free money. Why? Because you can't"

We could probably raise a lot of money an ICO, but we'd prefer not to. We even wrote about the reasons why: https://blog.openbazaar.org/why-openbazaar-token-doesnt-exis...

"because if people start using your project with your new Tor support, you'll be a co-conspirator in a drug distribution network."

No more so than Bram Cohen is a conspirator in a piracy network. And this kind of potential limitation in getting funding is exactly why ICOs exist.

"But you don't just come out and say this. You're not straightforward. It's fake idealism, and that quality more than any other is what motivates me to compete."

I don't understand what you think I'm not being straightforward about, but feel free to compete. I don't understand why you would want to given that you clearly think the idea is not very good for good luck.

Re: The Darknet and the Future of Content Distribution (2002) [pdf]

#19

Post by tylersmith »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #16
tylersmith wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Edit: I did not believe sillysaurus was being serious. I am not trying to poach. If you'd like to work on a decentralized marketplace we'd love to have you help out with OpenBazaar. Feel free to join our Slack and discuss what you might like to work on if you'd like.

I mean, this is the perfect example of why not to join your project. You're here because we're talking about you. You made this offer because this is a subthread about displacing you, specifically. I don't trust people who are so opportunistic, and there are many reasons not to let you get control over a network that may be with us for the next hundred years. How about you go work on your project run by former spooks…

Also, which two spooks are you talking about? Brian did work for Booz Allen, but he's the only one that has worked for the federal government as far as I know. If there's a mole afoot please let me know who.

Re: The Darknet and the Future of Content Distribution (2002) [pdf]

#20

Post by sillysaurus3 »

tylersmith wrote: post #18
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, this is the perfect example of why not to join your project. You're here because we're talking about you. You made this offer because this is a subthread about displacing you, specifically. I don't trust people who are so opportunistic, and there are many reasons not to let you get control over a network that may be with us for the next hundred years. How about you go work on your project run by former spooks…

I'm not sure what you mean. I browse on HN a lot and post fairly frequently. I was surprised to see our project as the topic of the first comment on this article. It's not like I was seeking it out to pounce on a PR attempt. Feel free to start your own project and compete; that would be great. We have a number of competitors and we're all driving the ecosystem forward. "Your stated goal is to never turn a profit, eve…

A better analogy would be the founders of TPB. They went to jail for getting money from pirated content (ads). What do you think will happen to you when you try to extract any money at all from a network that people are using for darknet purposes? And you're adding Tor support and testing Tails for them.

Except wait, you're insulated from these ill effects because your founders are former spooks. You have ties to protect you.

I wonder why anyone would want to create a Tor equivalent for a marketplace for physical goods? Especially the government?

It's interesting how you're deflecting at the end -- I do think this is a terrible idea, and has the potential to unlock the gates of hell onto the world in the form of addicts having an endless supply of their addiction at the push of a button. But if you're determined to build your business on the backs of these people, then I am determined to beat you. If this technology is inevitable, then I think it's best not to let you come out on top. We'll see if anyone agrees.

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