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Lispers

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Re: Lispers

#61

Post by lispm »

bhnmmhmd wrote: post #45
lispm wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Lisp you can change the programs while they are running, in ways not possible in Haskell. The time Haskell needs to recompile the code to machine code, I have fixed the Lisp bug already.

Could you elaborate on how we can change Lisp programs while they're running? Sounds interesting. I actually had heard something similar about how JPL used Lisp and they could just debug the satellite remotely from the earth.

Take for example an Emacs editor written in Lisp, like for example GNU Emacs. The language used (here Emacs Lisp) is capable enough for a wide range of programming tasks. If you want to change the behavior of the editor, you can just load Lisp code into it. That could add new functionality or replace old. If you need an extension module, you can just load it. No need to restart the editor. Hard then is unloading. The editor includes a Lisp interpreter and a Lisp compiler to byte code of a virtual machine. It can also load new source and compiled code at runtime. Function calls often go through a symbol table and you can register new functions, delete them or replace them. There are lists of functions often used to be triggered at some point. You can add/remove functions to these lists.

In something like Common Lisp you can do changes to the object-system at runtime, both to the program and the programming language. For example you can load a patch, which changes the class hierarchy, adds slots, ... Also existing objects can be changed - they can change their class or the list of slots, etc.

Re: Lispers

#62

Post by randallsquared »

lispm wrote: post #52
randallsquared wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only language tools at this point? What faint damning! :)

'only' is your word, not mine.

Sure, your word was "just". I'm not sure what nuance I missed in "It's just that Javascript will need to catch up with core language tools for another decade" such that "It's only that..." would not work.

(Anyway, I would agree with what I think is your actual position that it's more than just language tools; not arguing...).

Re: Lispers

#63

Post by sds2 »

lispm wrote: post #60
sds2 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> JavaScript has also successfully escaped perception of "a language for brains". Research background is actually harmful for a modern programming language. Those who consider javascript a good language usually lack the experience to compare languages effectively. Javascript is mostly appealing to front-end developers because they usually don't know anything else. Also, there are a LOT of front-enders so, you can exp…

> I thought it only had a simplisitc ARC only... You are trolling.

Don't like my negative experience with lisp? I could guess it from your username.

Re: Lispers

#64

Post by sds2 »

Risord wrote: post #57
sds2 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it shouldn't be. Lisp is not practical(try to prove it otherwise, there's no evidence) and it's only a thing now because some ppl likes its esoteric syntax. It's way too overhyped.

Real apps has been built with lisp so therefore it's at least some what practical. On the other hand I just cannot see anything fundamental which makes lisp lot less practical from many commonly used business languages. Well ecosystem size may not same but on day one most languages haven't Hugo ecosystem. There are lot of schools and if you are "be a cool web app developer"-school where you learning direct skills rea…

> But if you are "computer SCIENCE"-school and you targeting variety of fundamental cocepts of field I say that lisp is quite essential.

I'm sure you've nothing to do with compsci because lisp is a useless language family. If anything is recommended than it's rust, c and idris.

Re: Lispers

#65

Post by kgwgk »

bhnmmhmd wrote: post #41
kgwgk wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming: Case Studies in Common Lisp http://norvig.com/paip.html

This book is very very very old. It basically belongs to an era when AI was mostly concerned with symbolic computation. AI nowadays has taken a whole different path with neural networks.

I'm curious: does "Artificial Intelligence: A Modern Approach" by Russell and Norvig also belong to a long-gone era?

Re: Lispers

#66

Post by sds2 »

justinhj wrote: post #39
sds2 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> JavaScript has also successfully escaped perception of "a language for brains". Research background is actually harmful for a modern programming language. Those who consider javascript a good language usually lack the experience to compare languages effectively. Javascript is mostly appealing to front-end developers because they usually don't know anything else. Also, there are a LOT of front-enders so, you can exp…

> Those who consider javascript a good language usually lack the experience to compare languages effectively Javascript IS a powerful language with features that were not in other mainstream language for decades and some still don't have: first class functions, dynamic typing, lambda functions, closures etc. You only have to look at the diverse uses of Javascript to appreciate how far that power goes. As for the wart…

> Javascript IS a powerful language with features that were not in other mainstream language for decades and some still don't have: first class functions, dynamic typing, lambda functions, closures etc. You only have to look at the diverse uses of Javascript to appreciate how far that power goes.

This is ridiculous and it just shows how you don't have any experience with ML languages.

> As for the warts of JS any experienced Javascript programmer has learned to work around those and it takes a small effort to learn how to do so.

Again, ridiculous excuses.

> You really need proof that the majority of the web is written in PHP?

Yes.

> As for an entry point for unskilled labour, my first PHP code was written after I'd been a C++ programmer for 20 years. I found it similar to Javascript; some warts to be aware of but otherwise a powerful language it's possible to be very productive in in a short amount of time. I refer you to the look at the many Facebook tech blog posts on the topic.

It's not powerful, you just don't have experience with effective languages.

> Have you read up on CLOS? It goes way beyond the features of, say, C++ object model. By limiting yourself to a subset you can have the basic OOP features; inheritance, polymorphism and encapsulation. It provides more and arguably non-oop features such as multiple dispatch, methods that can run before, after and around your own methods (aspect oriented in modern parlance).

That was added after and still looks bad overall.

Re: Lispers

#67

Post by mtreis86 »

bhnmmhmd wrote: post #41
kgwgk wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming: Case Studies in Common Lisp http://norvig.com/paip.html

This book is very very very old. It basically belongs to an era when AI was mostly concerned with symbolic computation. AI nowadays has taken a whole different path with neural networks.

Still a great way to learn about AI (with lisp code samples). The follow-up book has no lisp in the book itself, but all examples from the book do have lisp code examples online http://aima.cs.berkeley.edu/

Re: Lispers

#68

Post by lispm »

randallsquared wrote: post #62
lispm wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'only' is your word, not mine.

Sure, your word was "just". I'm not sure what nuance I missed in "It's just that Javascript will need to catch up with core language tools for another decade" such that "It's only that..." would not work. (Anyway, I would agree with what I think is your actual position that it's more than just language tools; not arguing...).

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/its-jus...

Re: Lispers

#69

Post by lispm »

sds2 wrote: post #63
lispm wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I thought it only had a simplisitc ARC only... You are trolling.

Don't like my negative experience with lisp? I could guess it from your username.

Since you talk about ARC in the context of Lisp GC I doubt that you have any experience with Lisp.

Re: Lispers

#70

Post by abecedarius »

kgwgk wrote: post #20
wodenokoto wrote: post #19

Any good introductions to datascience/NLP/ML or AI using LISP?

Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming: Case Studies in Common Lisp http://norvig.com/paip.html

That's a great book I highly recommend, but not for those subjects anymore. Think of it as about the craft of programming.
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