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Ask HN: What's your spectacular burnout story?

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Re: Ask HN: What's your spectacular burnout story?

#41

About a month before my dissertation defense, I had already accepted a postdoc offer across the country, put in notice on my apartment, signed a new lease and arranged my cross-country move, but I had an absolutely impossible amount of work left on the list of things my dissertation committee claimed I needed to do before I could graduate, and my experiments just weren't working. It was clear that the work was imposs…

Whenever I feel a burnout coming, I'm going into max-sleeping mode: I then sleep 10 hours or more each day. It seems to help.

Re: Ask HN: What's your spectacular burnout story?

#42

About a month before my dissertation defense, I had already accepted a postdoc offer across the country, put in notice on my apartment, signed a new lease and arranged my cross-country move, but I had an absolutely impossible amount of work left on the list of things my dissertation committee claimed I needed to do before I could graduate, and my experiments just weren't working. It was clear that the work was imposs…

> It was only the fact that they were holding the degree hostage that caused me to feel forced to overwork myself into an unhealthy state.

Though I didn't have as extreme of a situation, I did have to do another year before I could get the PhD. I gained 50+ pounds, stopped shaving, became nocturnal, and averaged ~5 hours/day of sleep. Really don't understand how my SO stayed with me through that.

And I only took ~4.5 years to finish. Can't imagine what sort of shape I would've been in if it was strung out to 6 or 7 years.

It really made me appreciate being healthy, getting 8 hours of sleep, and time. While I don't necessarily recommend going through that, I do think everyone should experience what it's like to work 80+ hour weeks (at least for a short period of time), because it's difficult to convey how awful it is.

Re: Ask HN: What's your spectacular burnout story?

#43
Wanted to achieve lot in my life. And saw money as means to do that. Was ambitious, working hard. Left the job, founded company. Worked my ass off for 5 years. Failed. But earned enough so that for the last 2 years haven't been really working while trying to get my shit together (although soon the savings will run dry). Ruined my marriage with the only person I really cared about. Can't get any motivation to do anything and feel "out of loop" and outdated to get back into the job market. Thinking about the suicide.

Lessons learned: 1) money does not make you happy. If you don't know how to be happy with little, you won't be happier when you have a lot. 2) job and career is not everything. Healthy work-life balance means a lot.

.. Actually kinda hard to put all the thoughts, feelings and experiences of turbulent 7 years in only some sentences.

Re: Ask HN: What's your spectacular burnout story?

#44

I created an account extra for this, cause this is super personal. So, it all started last year. My mother who has been suffering from lung cancer for three years was doing pretty well - given the condition she has to deal with. Then, all of the sudden, my brother has died in an accident. My mom took that with the pain I guess only a mother can feel, but to my surprise she was braver than I thought. I, however, pushe…

I'm curious because there are still consequences here which weren't resolved while you fixed yourself. How long were you seeing or in the private clinic? What did you mom think? How is your mom? > I joined the company of a good friend of mine, which is outside the tech world, doing half of the hours I used to do and get the same amount of money. That sounds like an impractical luxury, I'm glad that is working for you…

> How long were you seeing or in the private clinic?

A few months.

> What did you mom think?

I had her support.

> Would staying with your other girlfriend have helped?

I think, I wouldn't have collapsed and would not have hit the floor so hard. But it wouldn't have helped me getting priorities right.

> You were bored of it then, and your new slogan "Love it, leave it, or change it" seems to be not new at all, it is exactly what you did before.

I a way, yes. But "leave it" is now my ultima ratio. Before "change it" felt almost always like a waste of time, now I see "change it" more like a passion to work on things rather than just always look for better alternatives.

Re: Ask HN: What's your spectacular burnout story?

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious because there are still consequences here which weren't resolved while you fixed yourself. How long were you seeing or in the private clinic? What did you mom think? How is your mom? > I joined the company of a good friend of mine, which is outside the tech world, doing half of the hours I used to do and get the same amount of money. That sounds like an impractical luxury, I'm glad that is working for you…

> How long were you seeing or in the private clinic? A few months. > What did you mom think? I had her support. > Would staying with your other girlfriend have helped? I think, I wouldn't have collapsed and would not have hit the floor so hard. But it wouldn't have helped me getting priorities right. > You were bored of it then, and your new slogan "Love it, leave it, or change it" seems to be not new at all, it is e…

thank you for the responses, it is very insightful

Re: Ask HN: What's your spectacular burnout story?

#46
Drank for the first 25 years of my career. High-functioning alcoholic, I guess. You've definitely heard of the products I have a bunch of code in, and the companies I worked for. I don't know how I managed getting blasted every night and still write all that code. As things got worse I started working for smaller and smaller companies, and wound up essentially jobless and alone and drinking off of my savings in a Silly Valley townhouse full of liquor bottles.

The CEO of the startup I'd just blown-off a job at (showed up the first week, "worked at home" for another couple of weeks, then stopped showing up entirely) drove over and knocked on my door to find out what was going on. Drunk off my ass, I told him, and that I'd get some help. So I made That Call and got some help. Did about three weeks of inpatient care (Stanford recovery unit, and then a place in the Santa Cruz mountains), then moved into a halfway house and spent a lot of time in AA meetings [AA is controversial, I know]. Never spent another night in that townhouse, wound up selling it. That CEO hired me back as a consultant a few months after I got out of inpatient.

I've got 18 years sober now, much of which I've spent working on software at great companies on products you've almost certainly heard of and probably used. Married, with a teen-age son, and doing better financially than I ever would have imagined. Still going to AA meetings, though nowhere near as often as I probably should.

Re: Ask HN: What's your spectacular burnout story?

#47

About a month before my dissertation defense, I had already accepted a postdoc offer across the country, put in notice on my apartment, signed a new lease and arranged my cross-country move, but I had an absolutely impossible amount of work left on the list of things my dissertation committee claimed I needed to do before I could graduate, and my experiments just weren't working. It was clear that the work was imposs…

I think extreme apathy to the point of "throwing your life away" is extremely common and should be warned against. Whether its quitting your job, leaving a relationship, moving, large decisions are often not best made in emotional states or under extreme duress - though they are completely understandable. From personal experience the only advice I would beg people in similar situations to take is to reach out for hel…

I think the only warning you need to give people is that this needs to not be a bluff. You need to be fully prepared to accept the consequences. It needs to not be grandstanding, thinking that if you are willing to "throw your life away" it will somehow magically open doors and those consequences will go away, like you read on the internet that they did for someone else.

I had a similar experience to the OP, not with burnout per se, but with health issues. I spent 3.5 years in constant, excruciating pain. When I no longer cared whether I would live or die, I just wanted to hurt less, I stumbled across a path forward. It turns out that doing things that genuinely reduce your pain (after pain meds no longer work) tends to get at the root cause of the problem.

I was medically on "death row" anyway. This is not a thing you can recommend for people to just throw caution to the wind and wildly experiment. But, when you are 100 percent clear that this path is so broken that anything else is preferable (even literally death), it can be very freeing in terms of allowing you to make choices that were previously unthinkable.

Re: Ask HN: What's your spectacular burnout story?

#48
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They claimed it was an attempt to sabotage their company, yet they were the ones that asked me to make the change, jesus, FML. Definitely learned my lesson on how important it is to get the initial contract correct, clarifying legal liabilities, responsibilities, etc. All your hard work and savings can go down the drain in a second if your employer wants to screw you over.

Can you elaborate on their claim for specific damages? How could a temporary change to robots.txt cause millions of dollars in damage? (Assuming you weren't telling Google to de-index TripAdvisor or some other huge SEO-dependant site.)

The code change was requested by an employee and it wouldn't have caused any damage. Feature, not a bug. Imagine trying to explain this to someone who doesn't know what "code" is. It's just people making up a story to blame you. The point is that you can be blamed for anything you do and become involved in a frivolous lawsuit.

Re: Ask HN: What's your spectacular burnout story?

#49
Mine was recently - worked on our new website for about a year. Then we took the decision to make it scalable. Tried to retro fit scalability in 4-6 weeks before giving up (ouch).

Took the decision to start from a blank canvas around last September, and up until February I only recall having several days off (Christmas, NYE etc). Worked in the day, the evenings and weekends. Impending sense of doom only seemed to subside when I made progress - this feedback loop kept me hooked and driving forwards.

Launched the site (https://www.construct.net) a couple of months later, but it burnt me out. Had to take a fairly significant amount of time off to switch off. I was waking up in the night with a horrible twisting in my chest and random bursts of adrenaline. Not healthy!

The site has been up and running and selling now for months really well, so I am proud and relieved.

Benefits:

* Learnt how to make a scalable site

* Re-writes are always significantly better written

* Learnt a LOT

Downsides:

* My health!

Also, you can't retrofit scalability which is a lesson I learnt the hard way. Seems obvious but I had a years work at stake so had to give it a try and having the guts to scrap everything and start again was incredibly painful but has worked out well long term. Feels very comparable to learning to backup.

When I look back at those several months - I honestly remember very little of it. As our startup has grown we've also learnt than I'm now becoming a significant bottleneck as my bandwidth isn't unlimited and it's a huge relief that we're now taking steps to address this.

I'm also not someone who can easily ask for help and leave it until it's too much to handle. This was a big contributing factor.

Not a "spectacular" burn out story but I teetered very close on the edge of something quite negative - I'm not exactly sure what but I'm glad I avoided it.

Re: Ask HN: What's your spectacular burnout story?

#50
Long time member, first time anonymous post. Here's my tale of woe and burnout. There's a lesson at the end. Nothing profound. But if you find yourself in a situation like this it may help.

Last job. Unremarkable but comfortable corporate job in web/backend development. Longest stint I had done in my life, at least going back to elementary school. Been there over 5 years. Got promoted to senior. My boss got bumped up a step and another developer on the team got promoted to his role as my new boss. Long story short, my new boss had it out for me. I started to get reports from fellow team members that my boss was dumping on me to others.

I ignored it until the annual review came up. After years of positive reviews, I got a minimally acceptable review. I challenged it and a couple weeks later I was slapped with a PIP. The allegations in the PIP were complete nonsense. (In one instance, they actually cited a bug I had fixed at the documented request of the project manager on one of our major applications as evidence I had been working on unassigned tasks.) This is when the burnout started.

I talked to a few people whose knowledge and advice I trusted on the subject and they said basically the same thing, "This is a battle you can't win. Get out as soon as you can." I heeded their advice. I put my head down and continued to do my job (more carefully and scrupulously than I ever had) and started looking for a new job. I don't regret this. Actually, I had already been actively looking by this time. But I started broadening my standard. There is one other thing I wish I had done at this point. (Spoiler: this is when I should have talked to a lawyer.)

As I had come to expect being a regular HN reader: finding a new job as a senior developer of a certain age nowadays can be tough. Especially when you're outside a major tech hub and not able to easily relocate. After six month and a couple frustratingly close calls, I still didn't have a new job. Six month review comes around. New PIP. New bogus allegations. I was fuming. This is when my burnout peaked. It was affecting my sleep and I developed a weird hives-like rash on my the back of my legs.

I was ready to quit but a friend recommended talking to an employment lawyer she knew. So I scheduled a consultation. I wanted to know if I could sue for defamation or something like that since the claims management was making about my performance were completely unfounded and I could cite documentation, code, and project management records to demonstrate it. He told me to get real. If I couldn't demonstrate flagrant discriminate on the basis of a protected class (race, sex, or age), I was wasting his time and my money. My company could fire me at will and the only reason they were keeping me around was to "paper my file" so they could quash anything as silly as I what I was dreaming up.

However, he also advised me not to quit my job. That's just what my boss and HR were hoping I would do. He said unless they fired me "with cause", for which poor performance does not qualify, I should stick it out. That way I wouldn't give up my claims for unemployment or COBRA. He said they might even offer my a minimal severance when they let me go. So I resolved to stick around until they fired me. I also started to push back against my manager's harassment. I tried to be polite but firm. But I started openly using the term harassment in talking with him.

Once HR got wind that I had used that term, they were involved. There were meetings with our HR reps and mediated sitdowns with my boss. They even initiated something called a 360-degree review for my boss.

This lasted for another 2 or 3 months. The whole time I knew I was doomed but at least I now had the satisfaction of feeling like I was sticking up for myself and enjoying the chaos that was swirling around the team instead of feeling like I was suffering the brunt of it. Finally, one Friday afternoon, my boss and I got into a voluble debate about some trivial technical matter, some tests I was working on IIRC, that he had called me into his office to needle me about. Monday morning I was called into a conference room, where I found my boss and our HR rep waiting. My boss read a statement notifying me I was terminated immediately. I was walked back to my desk by the HR rep to collect my personal belonging and walked out of the building. I wasn't offered a severance. But I felt liberated. I signed up for Obamacare, kept my dental benefits under COBRA, and HR didn't challenge my unemployment claim. Rash disappeared after a couple months. It took me about 6 months to find a new job. And no joke that 6 months was tough. I had to work much harder at finding my new job than I ever did at my old job.

The one lesson I can offer from this experience, the one thing I wished I had done sooner: as soon as you think your boss is out for you, consult with an employment lawyer. It will be worth the $200-$300 it costs.

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