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Ask HN: What's your spectacular burnout story?

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Re: Ask HN: What's your spectacular burnout story?

#12
Agreed that this questions is asked in a stupid way but I'll throw mine out there.

Last July I ran a migration (SaaS CRM company) that should have taken 3-4 weeks with 1 week of downtime, but the client insisted on 1 week with 4 days of downtime. It was the first major migration moving this platform out of beta and I loved that product (and that client) more than anything, so I said fine.

I made it super clear to my boss that this was going to fucked up and this was a bad idea, but I was down to try. Long story short I work 20+ hours a day for 7 days (heavily helped by, in retrospect, pretty dangerous amounts of adderall/provigil/Ritalin/caffeine/ambien for when I actually did need to sleep) and we got it down.

During the last day of QA I clasped in my office from exhaustion and went temporarily blind, ended up in the ER. That didn't matter though because the migration was a resounding success - client was happy, executives were happy, product was stable.

My boss was incredible (truly the best boss I'll ever have) and was ready to give me anything I wanted... except a budget for more staff, which was really the issue here. This product was my baby and I was going to ensure its success no matter what happened.

Put in my notice three weeks later. They told me to name my price and title bump to stay, but weren't willing to let me hire the two or three staff I knew I needed. I offered to stay as long as they needed to help with the transition but turned down all their bonuses because I didn't want to be beholden to them.

I finally left 6 months later to make slightly less money with a slightly higher title at a company that gave me the team I knew I needed. I still miss that company more than anything, getting to see a mission criticalcproduct go from idea to being used by massive multinational companies was incredible and an experience I doubt I'll ever have again.

FWIW I'm still in touch with people from my old team and the company has since hired three more staff (plus the two existing staff the team already had) and a VP to manage the team. By not giving me to staff support I asked for and letting me burn out the company has "lost" somewhere around $800k in new staff costs alone.

Re: Ask HN: What's your spectacular burnout story?

#14
post #8

Got sued by my previous company for a line of code that they asked me to change. Luckily I had proof that they asked me to modify that line of code. If I didn't, well, I'd owe them millions of dollars and have my wages garnished for the rest of my life. Writing software is a bit ridiculous, your employer can blame you for anything and you'll have to waste years of your life and tens of thousands of dollars in the leg…

Wha? Can you elaborate? Did they say you introduced a critical bug or something? Is there such thing a programmer malpractice?

They claimed it was an attempt to sabotage their company, yet they were the ones that asked me to make the change, jesus, FML.

Definitely learned my lesson on how important it is to get the initial contract correct, clarifying legal liabilities, responsibilities, etc. All your hard work and savings can go down the drain in a second if your employer wants to screw you over.

Re: Ask HN: What's your spectacular burnout story?

#15
post #10
post #7

I am in the midst of one. It has been about a year and a half, plus or minus, and it has taken a tremendous toll on my well-being. I find it especially difficult to deal with the mismatch between my sense of what I can do, which is calibrated to my former self, and what I can actually deliver. I desperately need to believe that what I am going through is a temporary perturbation, so I keep trying to "shake it off", a…

This is exactly how I feel. It has also been a year and a half or so for me. I don't think I'm ever going back to my former self.

I've been through a similar experience and feel the same way (also around a year and a half for me). Recently I've concluded that the best thing I can do is form daily habits to help bring me closer to where I want to be. Whether that's keeping a strict sleep schedule, exercising more regularly, working on a specific hobby regularly, etc.

There really should be support groups for this sort of thing - message boards don't quite help it.

Re: Ask HN: What's your spectacular burnout story?

#16
This might not be a normal burnout story, so sorry ahead of time. I'm not mentioning any names of individuals or companies, so please don't ask. They are all well-known, though. I partnered with a proven businessman for a project that took more than 5 years and about 8 hours per day, every day (I was already working 8 hours per day at my daily job). The deal was 50/50. We had great early reviews from media but only a handful of sales, like 5. He kept adding features because he said that's why we didn't have sales. The new features did not bring us sales. In the end it was my fault. He was known for being ruthless and litigious. When his attorneys came calling for full source code I caved and gave it all away and walked away from the partnership. It ruined a friendship or two, was tough on my marriage, and for a time I was suicidal. He never made any money on the product itself and ended up losing the code. I did not keep a copy. He sold a few of the patents here and there and they're in use by companies that if I mentioned the names your eyes would get big. They have incorporated some of the technology into products, but not all of it. I have no idea what he made on those deals. It absolutely killed my creativity. That's been 15 years ago and I still can't get motivated on any side project at all. I still am not completely whole.

Re: Ask HN: What's your spectacular burnout story?

#17
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness

Lost major supplier responsible for about 1/2 our gross profit at about the same time our broad market entered recession, two key employees were mired in divorce proceedings, and another key employee left to fight CNS lymphoma. Three years and about three soul crushing false recoveries later we emerged with a lot of work ahead to rebuild and reduce debt.

The advice... expect nothing. Don't let the highs carry you or the lows crush you. Recognize circumstances outside your control and shut the door on them when it comes to your opinion of yourself. Earthquakes rock the brilliant and dullards al the same and sometimes having survived the experience is accomplishment enough.

Re: Ask HN: What's your spectacular burnout story?

#18

Got sued by my previous company for a line of code that they asked me to change. Luckily I had proof that they asked me to modify that line of code. If I didn't, well, I'd owe them millions of dollars and have my wages garnished for the rest of my life. Writing software is a bit ridiculous, your employer can blame you for anything and you'll have to waste years of your life and tens of thousands of dollars in the leg…

Your wages wouldn't have been garnished for life. You could just declare bankruptcy and it would be erased.

As well, being sued for work that you do as an employee can't get you sued, at least in North America. That's like a restaurant owner charging a waiter for dropping plates, that's illegal.

Re: Ask HN: What's your spectacular burnout story?

#19
In the late 1990s I was on the top of the dot com world, I ran internet operations for an F100 company. I had 35 direct reports, over 1000 people spread throughout the company indirectly reported to me. I did it all: systems admin, networking, application development for front and back end. I advised the CEO and senior execs on our internet strategies, what companies to acquire, which ones to avoid.

I poured everything into that role, shunning personal relationships with all but a few very close friends.

I made the calculus that, like others in the same company before me, I'd put my time in and after 5-7 years I'd downshift roles. Write some papers, some patents, put everything I'd learned into product and service development.

Thing is, I didn't appreciate how much the company and company culture was changing even as I was helping drive that change.

The company changed from focusing on experience to certifications. Personal loyalties were almost frowned upon. If you were a technical professional you had to demonstrate that you filed for multiple patents per year (in my role I was actively discouraged from filing patents for corporate politics reasons…I could always file later).

In very short order I lost my team and lost my role. It turned out that while I was excellent at "internet stuff", I sucked at corporate politics. Once real money started being spent on infrastructure and applications I grew a target on my back large enough for its own corporate task force.

Multiple executives pulled me aside to tell me bluntly that I had no future at the company, but I didn't listen, I'd been there close to a decade, doing "internet stuff" most of that time, how could they throw that all away?

I got a consolation role in another organization at the company which lasted a year and then the entire organization was disbanded.

In parallel in my limited personal life, both of my parents were dying, with their deaths bracketing 9/11 by months on either side.

9/11 destroyed the neighborhood I had been living it.

By 2002 I walked away from all of it.

And I've mostly stayed away since then. I made quite a bit of money in the 1990s, not enough to be a VC, enough to semi–retire.

Every now and then I resurface and work with a startup for awhile, but I just can't pour myself in anymore the way people expect. It's just a job. I hope the startup does well, but I've become too jaded.

I briefly tried raising money, but found VCs were turned off that I walked away from the 7x24 lifestyle and my conservative approach to growing a business did not comport with their goals for portfolio returns.

So, yeah, it was a meh experience. I remain surprised that I survived the final year of working insane hours for the company even as I knew that they would jettison me as soon as I was no longer capable of working 18 hour days 6 days a week.

I'm in a much better space mentally, but it took over a decade after that experience before I "felt better".

My family and personal relationships take priority, and I actively turn down gigs and new work if they conflict with that choice.

I don't really have any advice. I feel like I wasted a decade creating capital value for a company way out of proportion to my compensation. And another decade wasted "recovering" from rejection from that company.

I guess my only advice would be, when you do burn out figure out an acceptable cover story if you decide to ever return to tech. Recruiters & head hunters, let alone hiring managers, will avoid at all costs anyone who admits to having burned out.

Re: Ask HN: What's your spectacular burnout story?

#20

About a month before my dissertation defense, I had already accepted a postdoc offer across the country, put in notice on my apartment, signed a new lease and arranged my cross-country move, but I had an absolutely impossible amount of work left on the list of things my dissertation committee claimed I needed to do before I could graduate, and my experiments just weren't working. It was clear that the work was imposs…

I think extreme apathy to the point of "throwing your life away" is extremely common and should be warned against. Whether its quitting your job, leaving a relationship, moving, large decisions are often not best made in emotional states or under extreme duress - though they are completely understandable.

From personal experience the only advice I would beg people in similar situations to take is to reach out for help on all fronts. Professional, family, work, friends, etc. can all offer advice at times like these. I say this hypocritically because I myself did not choose help throughout my life when I was in similar situations. Getting help is really hard sometimes. But if you are not trying to get help you are not actively accepting all your options.

And I want to say I'm not trying to take away from your story at all. I've just seen many who have thrown it away where it didn't "all turn out ok".

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