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Life and death in Apple’s forbidden city

theguardian.com

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Re: Life and death in Apple’s forbidden city

#71

Post by simonh »

icu wrote: post #69

As consumers we have the power to vote with our wallet. I'm actually proud to say that the last Apple product I bought was the iPad generation 1 for these exact ethical reasons. I'd really encourage others to look at the companies they buy from and see if they align with your morals before making a purchase.

What phone and/or tablet do you use?

Clients of Foxconn include Amazon, Microsoft, Cisco, HP, Dell, Huawei, Nintendo, Sony, Toshiba, Motorola, Blackberry and many more. They don't just make iPhones. Next time you look at an XBox or Switch, guess where it came from? Do you know that workers prefer to work on the Apple lines because Apple has greater say in the factory conditions than the other clients and pays the workers on their lines more? When you looked into the companies you buy from, how far did that research go?

Re: Life and death in Apple’s forbidden city

#72

Post by simonh »

teemo91 wrote: post #19

How economically feasible is it to automate assembly? It looks like a lot of human suffering can be lessened if at least some parts of assembly are automated.

Have you ever been to the Chinese countryside? I have, my wife is Chinese. My wife's sister is disabled and married a man from the countryside, a common arrangement in China, so I have relatives from the country. Trust me, sending all those workers back home really isn't going to do an awful lot to reduce human suffering. They choose to go and take those jobs for good reasons.

Many of the workers in those factories are women. After a few years, they often go back home as the wealthiest members of their families, with enough capital to build homes and start new businesses of their own. It's actually started a distinct demographic trend. People have all sorts of bizarre ideas about china. Sure the conditions in these factories are awful by western standards, but China isn't the west. The same basis for making decisions just don't apply. Hopefully they will one day, but we're not there yet.

Re: Life and death in Apple’s forbidden city

#75

Post by lsjdfkljdfwkwdf »

pm90 wrote: post #18
peterburkimsher wrote: post #12

I went to Shenzhen and worked for Egoman, a Chinese company that made the first batch of Raspberry Pis, before that manufacturing got moved to Wales. The dormitories look typical. I arranged to stay in one through a different friend; mine wasn't arranged by the company. Now I'm in Taiwan, and life is better here. Factories are newer and cleaner, and working hours are more sane. Chinese factories often set long shifts…

Why do people agree to work in such conditions? Please don't be offended by my question, but my impression was that literacy is very high in China, and everyone gets basic education. Are the workers not aware of how they're being exploited? Are they happy with what they do? What's the turnover like?

The workers are well compensated by local standard and free housing is provided. What made you think they are any worse than someone making less than 100K in bay area?

Re: Life and death in Apple’s forbidden city

#76

Post by archagon »

davidzweig wrote: post #51
devrandomguy wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on your name, I assume that you are not ethnically Asian. Do you find racism / xenophobia to be a significant issue for you in either Shenzhen or Taiwan? As a very white Canadian, if I wanted to explore, work and travel for years on end, and was willing to live at the same financial level as the locals, would that be offensive to them?

China seemed to me like a pretty down-to-earth place, people are pragmatic and generally accepting of foreigners. There are many different ethnic groups. If you stick around a while and work on your Mandarin, I think you can find your place quite ok. Kunming is a nice city, and the surrounding area is very pretty. Some photos from a trip here: https://goo.gl/photos/FawpURbZweNNQt288 I am working on some electronics a…

OMG, those mountains! If I lived there, I would wake up every day in awe.

Re: Life and death in Apple’s forbidden city

#77

Post by peterburkimsher »

icu wrote: post #68
peterburkimsher wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in Geneva (born in Switzerland, parents live at France but work at CERN). But my passport is British by descent. I'm trying to go to NZ because it's the fastest way for me to get Permanent Residency. I can't have kids until I get PR, because British-by-descent only goes one generation. First I went to Xingda Hongye in Fushazhen, near Zhongshan, China. It's a long way outside the city, and there is seriously…

"I'm trying to go to NZ because it's the fastest way for me to get Permanent Residency. I can't have kids until I get PR, because British-by-descent only goes one generation." Are you talking about passing on your British citizenship to a child born abroad? I'm interested to know how getting a New Zealand permanent residency helps?

Everywhere is "abroad". I have no connection to the UK. My girlfriend is from Taiwan. It's easier for me and her to go together to NZ than for me to take her to the UK.

NZ PR is permanent - I can leave and go back any time. It also allows children born in NZ to get citizenship. Taiwanese or Canadian PR is not permanent - if you leave for a few years, you lose it. Therefore I would need to get citizenship before having a "home". Citizenship takes 4 years, NZ PR takes only 2 years.

I just want to earn the right to live in a country with the woman I love and have children together, without always worrying that one of us will have a visa denied and be forced to move.

Re: Life and death in Apple’s forbidden city

#78

Post by peterburkimsher »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #57
jdietrich wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A very large proportion of workers in technology factories are internal migrants. Many of them will have grown up on subsistence farms in the poorer regions of China. Like most migrant workers, they're working hard and saving money towards a planned future. They overwhelmingly prefer factories with dormitories, because it keeps their living costs down and allows them to save more money. "Exploitation" is a subjective…

Textiles have been priced out of the pearl river delta, but there are plenty of regions in china where it is still going strong (as you say, where the internal migrants come from).

I can confirm this. My girlfriend works as a draughtswoman making Gerber designs for clothes (just like I did for PCBs before). Her company's factory is in China, but the design work is done in Taiwan. Then they sell their products to be branded by US chain stores (e.g. JC Penny, Macy's).

Re: Life and death in Apple’s forbidden city

#79

Post by rangibaby »

devrandomguy wrote: post #27
peterburkimsher wrote: post #12

I went to Shenzhen and worked for Egoman, a Chinese company that made the first batch of Raspberry Pis, before that manufacturing got moved to Wales. The dormitories look typical. I arranged to stay in one through a different friend; mine wasn't arranged by the company. Now I'm in Taiwan, and life is better here. Factories are newer and cleaner, and working hours are more sane. Chinese factories often set long shifts…

Based on your name, I assume that you are not ethnically Asian. Do you find racism / xenophobia to be a significant issue for you in either Shenzhen or Taiwan? As a very white Canadian, if I wanted to explore, work and travel for years on end, and was willing to live at the same financial level as the locals, would that be offensive to them?

Your biggest frustration in East Asia will be getting to a level in the local language that is high enough that people will open up their "real life" to you.

Re: Life and death in Apple’s forbidden city

#80

Post by dopamean »

mfrykman wrote: post #36

A friend of mine is an investigative journalist in China - he spent a while working in a helmet foam factory and living in a dorm such as the one in the article. He heard rumors that the Chinese mafia would pay workers to commit suicide at Foxconn in exchange for money for their family in the countryside. The mafia would then threaten suicide attempts as leverage to extort concessions from Foxconn. Not sure if it's t…

Honestly, that sounds like a convenient rumor for Foxconn.
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