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Opioid makers made payments to one in 12 U.S. doctors

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Re: Opioid makers made payments to one in 12 U.S. doctors

#91

Post by ddebernardy »

tylersmith wrote: post #52
ddebernardy wrote: post #10

Is this really news? John Oliver ran a piece on the topic and the industry's many other dubious practices over 2 years ago, and I'm quite sure he wasn't the first to try to raise awareness. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQZ2UeOTO3I

Not everyone watches John Oliver. Lots of things you and I know would be news to a lot people and many things they know would be news to us.

Of course, but like you and I those in his team don't have a single source of information, and as Oliver quips in said video, you know you have a problem when your marketing practices are notorious enough to make it into TV series.

Re: Opioid makers made payments to one in 12 U.S. doctors

#92

Post by gvd »

icelancer wrote: post #87
gvd wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was living in Europe and had my wisdom-tooth removed I only got a local anesthetic so I wouldn't feel the cutting. Recently I heard a friend of mine (here in the US) say she was given vicodin afterwards. To me that's just insane. Sure I was a little uncomfortable for half a day but I'm not going to take bloody opioids because of that. It might also be the case that people just don't ask for it as easily as in…

I didn't get any pain pills after wisdom teeth. I had local anesthetic and nitrous oxide gas to ease me, but not enough to sedate me (and obviously, no IV). Some people are given pain pills because their teeth are impacted and the doctors have to break bones; the surgery is far more painful in the recovery stage than if it goes normally. Even still, a common theme amongst my friends who got vicodin after the surgery…

I'm not saying this happens everywhere, but there are plenty of odd cases where medication is given way to easy. They should create some central registry to monitor these prescriptions.

Re: Opioid makers made payments to one in 12 U.S. doctors

#93

Post by kartan »

ams6110 wrote: post #73

"the average payment to physicians was $15, the top 1 percent of physicians reported receiving more than $2,600 annually in payments" Neither is enough to sway most physicians IMO. This seems to me like trying to stir up a scandal where there really isn't one. I did hear on the radio today that 90% of prescription opiates are sold in USA and Canada, with the bulk of that being the USA. Other countries treat pain more…

> Neither is enough to sway most physicians IMO.

It is not just a bribe.

Companies spend a few dollars on advertisment per person to get more customers. When you can spend $2,600 on one doctor for advertisment purposes, you can do a lot to get their attention.

Re: Opioid makers made payments to one in 12 U.S. doctors

#94

Post by kartan »

refurb wrote: post #12

This should be kept in context. Let's say the manufacturer presented new data at a conference. During that presentation they provided lunch and refreshments. Everyone of those doctors that attended will now show up in the CMS database. Do we think that a $15 lunch is going to influence a physician to over-prescribe a drug?

> Do we think that a $15 lunch is going to influence a physician to over-prescribe a drug?

Why then does the manufacturer spends that $15? Are you an marketing expert? On which studies and data do you base this conclusion?

Re: Opioid makers made payments to one in 12 U.S. doctors

#95

Post by Theodores »

robmiller wrote: post #49

There is an irony here that the US invaded Afghanistan, the world's largest opium exporter[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_production_in_Afghanista...

...and those drugs go North towards the former Soviet Union. This is chemical warfare by other means. When our Russian friends cannot afford the heroin any more they make 'Krokodil':

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desomorphine

Whatever you do, don't do image or video searches on this 'flesh eating drug'!!!

This product came about in part due to codeine being as available as aspirin (no prescription needed) and a crackdown on heroin by the teetotal Putin.

In the USA and places like Australia 'crystal meth'/'ice' took hold in same-but-different circumstances.

When you look at the UN report on opium cultivation in Afghanistan for 2002 you see why there was such an important need to bomb the country - those evil Taliban ('students') had wiped out this important (to the Americans) industry. Thankfully with the British protecting the poppy fields the trade has been restored and we are back to business as usual.

Re: Opioid makers made payments to one in 12 U.S. doctors

#96

Post by charlesdm »

alexanderdmitri wrote: post #68
lr4444lr wrote: post #27

Maybe it's because Americans just have this cognitive dissonance that their trusted doctor could be any less than 100% conscientious about their health, but we need to plainly face the fact that if members of the press were able to write exposés about drug makers' fudging the data about the addictiveness and effectiveness of their products, that doctors with their medical training and responsibility over actual peopl…

The problem seems to me that in the United States, the most common metric for success is money. Within most fields, if someone has a nice house, takes great vacations with the family, drives a nice car, those around them will say: Wow, { person.name } has really done well for themselves! The example I always use is imagine two foot doctors (podiatrists). One has all those things above, the other doesn't (or at least…

A third alternative is, he just doesn't feel the need to spend all his money? They both could be making the same amount of money, with one blowing it all on random shit, and the other actually not having a need to do that?

Re: Opioid makers made payments to one in 12 U.S. doctors

#97

Post by chillwaves »

icelancer wrote: post #86
curun1r wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying that everyone should meditate. I'm only bringing it up because I think it sheds a light on the true nature of pain and why simply removing it with chemicals at all costs is a very dangerous thing to be doing. We need to better understand that nature of pain and understand how to deal with it both physiologically and psychologically rather than taking the naive approach using chemicals, because a mind-b…

>We need to better understand that nature of pain Pain science is a very well-researched field that gets plenty of funding and is worked on by some of the best scientists and doctors in the world who have no corrupt agenda. There is no conspiracy. Just doctors over-prescribing opioids, patients lying to get them, and a few very corrupt "pain management" shops - primarily in Florida - handing them out like candy.

What about pharma that lies about the addiction potential? With billions $ on the line?

That is a reality you did not include.

Re: Opioid makers made payments to one in 12 U.S. doctors

#98

Post by senorjazz »

zjaffee wrote: post #33
lr4444lr wrote: post #27

Maybe it's because Americans just have this cognitive dissonance that their trusted doctor could be any less than 100% conscientious about their health, but we need to plainly face the fact that if members of the press were able to write exposés about drug makers' fudging the data about the addictiveness and effectiveness of their products, that doctors with their medical training and responsibility over actual peopl…

Your ignoring the fact that up until recently, pain was considered to be the fifth vital sign and was just as important to treat as things like a fever. Medicine as a field is largely about removing discomfort, as many medical conditions could be relatively debilitating. Think how many times taking an ibuprofen/acetaminophen just made it possible for you to go on with your day, rather than needing to lay in bed in ag…

>. For people with chronic pain, or those coming out of surgery, perceived recovery time can be a big thing for people

Chronic / serious pain yes. I read that 1/3 of people in the US are on (or perhaps have taken?) an opiod prescribed pain killer. If true, that is insane! That is not chronic pain.

* Drs have over prescribed opiate based painkillers. Fact. * Big Pharma corporations have pushed opiate painkillers recklessly. Fact * Profits became more important than the health of the customers/(patients). Fact

This has caused the death of 1000s. Yet no one actually responsible will be held accountable. Sure some Drs will lose their license, but the real guilty parties are further up the tree and will be untouchable.

Unfortunately, that seems to be the American way.

Re: Opioid makers made payments to one in 12 U.S. doctors

#99

Post by senorjazz »

icelancer wrote: post #86
curun1r wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying that everyone should meditate. I'm only bringing it up because I think it sheds a light on the true nature of pain and why simply removing it with chemicals at all costs is a very dangerous thing to be doing. We need to better understand that nature of pain and understand how to deal with it both physiologically and psychologically rather than taking the naive approach using chemicals, because a mind-b…

>We need to better understand that nature of pain Pain science is a very well-researched field that gets plenty of funding and is worked on by some of the best scientists and doctors in the world who have no corrupt agenda. There is no conspiracy. Just doctors over-prescribing opioids, patients lying to get them, and a few very corrupt "pain management" shops - primarily in Florida - handing them out like candy.

>There is no conspiracy. Just doctors over-prescribing opioids, patients lying to get them, and a few very corrupt "pain management" shops - primarily in Florida - handing them out like candy.

I would say the root problem goes far deeper. Big pharma make big politic donations which buys the ability to do this. Big pharma heavily pushed these onto Drs. Big pharma lied about the addiction potential. Big pharma fudged the facts.

I am not 100% sure of the governmental process to get moving, but their is political oversight and they have been negligent for decades, but as government bodies > big corporations seem to have a personnel revolving door, no one wants to rock the boat and lose the chance of landing a high paying job later down the line.

Re: Opioid makers made payments to one in 12 U.S. doctors

#100

Post by Spivak »

senorjazz wrote: post #98
zjaffee wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your ignoring the fact that up until recently, pain was considered to be the fifth vital sign and was just as important to treat as things like a fever. Medicine as a field is largely about removing discomfort, as many medical conditions could be relatively debilitating. Think how many times taking an ibuprofen/acetaminophen just made it possible for you to go on with your day, rather than needing to lay in bed in ag…

>. For people with chronic pain, or those coming out of surgery, perceived recovery time can be a big thing for people Chronic / serious pain yes. I read that 1/3 of people in the US are on (or perhaps have taken?) an opiod prescribed pain killer. If true, that is insane! That is not chronic pain. * Drs have over prescribed opiate based painkillers. Fact. * Big Pharma corporations have pushed opiate painkillers reckl…

If the metric is 'has ever taken' then I would believe that number is low. Most people will get opioids after they get their wisdom teeth out.
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