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Opioid makers made payments to one in 12 U.S. doctors

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Re: Opioid makers made payments to one in 12 U.S. doctors

#71

Post by goldenkey »

curun1r wrote: post #56
zjaffee wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your ignoring the fact that up until recently, pain was considered to be the fifth vital sign and was just as important to treat as things like a fever. Medicine as a field is largely about removing discomfort, as many medical conditions could be relatively debilitating. Think how many times taking an ibuprofen/acetaminophen just made it possible for you to go on with your day, rather than needing to lay in bed in ag…

> Think how many times taking an ibuprofen/acetaminophen just made it possible for you to go on with your day... I used to think like that. But since starting meditation practice, I've come to experience pain very differently from the way that I did before. And I've come to realize that only around 10% of pain is physical. The rest is mental...it's how your mind responds to the 10% physical pain. If I react with equa…

You havent had real pain, kid. Dont trivialize what you are in the dark about.

Re: Opioid makers made payments to one in 12 U.S. doctors

#72

Post by alexanderdmitri »

PeanutCurry wrote: post #69
alexanderdmitri wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem seems to me that in the United States, the most common metric for success is money. Within most fields, if someone has a nice house, takes great vacations with the family, drives a nice car, those around them will say: Wow, { person.name } has really done well for themselves! The example I always use is imagine two foot doctors (podiatrists). One has all those things above, the other doesn't (or at least…

This doesn't sounds like an issue of too much money though, it sounds like a combination of baseline compensation not yielding a high enough return, inadequate oversight agencies to catch this sort of behavior, and the consequences of being caught not being strict enough. It could even be argued that just paying more would discourage the corrupt behavior in your hypothetical examples because the doctors are taking th…

I'm just saying because of the lack of systemic solutions (or cures to fit the subject of the thread) you're describing, conscientious doctors are penalized to some extent and that's not cool.

Addendum: More oversight and regulation over all the doctors would be much more complex than just concentrating on the two enormous industries muddling the situation in the first place. Doctors' jobs have already become incredibly bureaucratized over the years and introducing more complex rules to simply address the symptoms rather than the root cause seems wasteful.

Re: Opioid makers made payments to one in 12 U.S. doctors

#73

Post by ams6110 »

"the average payment to physicians was $15, the top 1 percent of physicians reported receiving more than $2,600 annually in payments"

Neither is enough to sway most physicians IMO. This seems to me like trying to stir up a scandal where there really isn't one.

I did hear on the radio today that 90% of prescription opiates are sold in USA and Canada, with the bulk of that being the USA. Other countries treat pain more holistically.

Re: Opioid makers made payments to one in 12 U.S. doctors

#74

Post by rdtsc »

slededit wrote: post #36
rdtsc wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure free lunch has always been seen as a perk even for the supposedly rational and logical people like programmers (being slightly sarcastic there). I've heard of people going for a lower paying jobs and citing free lunch as deciding factor. Moreover there are other ways to influence doctors. In some states they have to pass certifications or exams for continued education. Pharma companies would pay the companies wr…

Getting lunch from your employer isn't the same and doesn't cause a conflict of interest. Its not about the lunch but rather who the lunch is coming from. If you worked for google and Uber was buying your lunches then there would be a conflict of interest.

I was just trying to point out that rational people will do silly things for free lunches. And the original claim that lunches wouldn't make a difference in opiod prescription is not always true.

Re: Opioid makers made payments to one in 12 U.S. doctors

#75

Post by PeanutCurry »

alexanderdmitri wrote: post #72
PeanutCurry wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't sounds like an issue of too much money though, it sounds like a combination of baseline compensation not yielding a high enough return, inadequate oversight agencies to catch this sort of behavior, and the consequences of being caught not being strict enough. It could even be argued that just paying more would discourage the corrupt behavior in your hypothetical examples because the doctors are taking th…

I'm just saying because of the lack of systemic solutions (or cures to fit the subject of the thread) you're describing, conscientious doctors are penalized to some extent and that's not cool. Addendum: More oversight and regulation over all the doctors would be much more complex than just concentrating on the two enormous industries muddling the situation in the first place. Doctors' jobs have already become incredi…

I agree with your addendum, I actually paused for about a minute while I was writing my reply to contemplate the right word to use for current oversight. Originally I was going to say insufficient/weak oversight but that seemed too much like it implied that the solution would simply be stronger/more oversight.

Re: Opioid makers made payments to one in 12 U.S. doctors

#76

Post by lhuser123 »

alexanderdmitri wrote: post #72
PeanutCurry wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't sounds like an issue of too much money though, it sounds like a combination of baseline compensation not yielding a high enough return, inadequate oversight agencies to catch this sort of behavior, and the consequences of being caught not being strict enough. It could even be argued that just paying more would discourage the corrupt behavior in your hypothetical examples because the doctors are taking th…

I'm just saying because of the lack of systemic solutions (or cures to fit the subject of the thread) you're describing, conscientious doctors are penalized to some extent and that's not cool. Addendum: More oversight and regulation over all the doctors would be much more complex than just concentrating on the two enormous industries muddling the situation in the first place. Doctors' jobs have already become incredi…

Agreed. There will always be doctors who 'bend' the rules or just don't care. Not to mention those who literally have no idea of the kind of damage they can be introducing in someone's life by prescribing certain drug. Until someone stands up to Big Pharma, the massacre will never stop.

Re: Opioid makers made payments to one in 12 U.S. doctors

#78

Post by [deleted] »

bostik wrote: post #30
elipsey wrote: post #5

Reminds me of what Rostand said about murder: "Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." Sell one oxycontin and you're drug dealer; sell a million and you're a C level.

That can be generalised. Petty thieves break the law. Mafiosos skirt and avoid the law. The real kingpins write the law.

[deleted]

Re: Opioid makers made payments to one in 12 U.S. doctors

#79

Post by jasonkostempski »

Are there any rules that if a doctor has such a deal, it must be clearly expressed to the patient verbally and in writing? I think that would help not only deter doctors for making the deal at risk of being viewed as untrustworthy but also help people who blindly trust their doctor to maybe think twice before accepting their solution. I don't think there's a fix for the patients that just want the drug, and as long as they're informed, consenting adults, it should be their prerogative.

Re: Opioid makers made payments to one in 12 U.S. doctors

#80

Post by WalterSear »

tylersmith wrote: post #45
09bjb wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free lunches, pens, merchandise, cruises...all of these tactics work and have proven ROI for the drug manufacturers. They've known for years that they're worthwhile investments. It's not really the doctor's fault, it's just reality until there's stricter regulation.

It is absolutely a doctor's fault if they prescribe medications that are unnecessary because of kickbacks.

Yes, but it's also human nature, or big pharma couldn't rely on it. If we care about this stuff, it needs to be legislated or reorganized away, it's not realistic to expect 'people to do a better job'.
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