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Life and death in Apple’s forbidden city

theguardian.com

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Re: Life and death in Apple’s forbidden city

#11

Post by fludlight »

tooltalk wrote: post #8
Retric wrote: post #2

It's important to remember employed people normally have a lower suicide rate than average. So Foxcon's rate is similar to the national average, but higher than the national average of employed people.

Let's not forget that the average age of Foxconn worker is only 23. According to (somewhat dated) WHO, that age group has the lowest suicide rate ( http://www.who.int/mental_health/media/chin.pdf ) Number of suicides by age group and gender. CHINA (mainland, selected rural and urban areas*), 1999. Age (years) 5-14 15-24 25-34 35-44 45-54 55-64 65-74 75+ All Males 83 626 1357 1287 1196 1165 1325 1009 8048 Females 64 9…

You should look at per capita suicide rates because populations are not distributed evenly by age group. Also, China in 1999 was a very different country so it's difficult to draw conclusions from this dataset about the situation there today.

Re: Life and death in Apple’s forbidden city

#12

Post by peterburkimsher »

I went to Shenzhen and worked for Egoman, a Chinese company that made the first batch of Raspberry Pis, before that manufacturing got moved to Wales.

The dormitories look typical. I arranged to stay in one through a different friend; mine wasn't arranged by the company.

Now I'm in Taiwan, and life is better here. Factories are newer and cleaner, and working hours are more sane. Chinese factories often set long shifts because there's nothing to do in the local area except work. Kaohsiung has much more local culture than Shenzhen, so the workers are more interested in time off, and happier for it.

I've been here for 3 years to get the necessary work experience for future visas. I'm now considering other options, particularly New Zealand or Australia, where my girlfriend and I both want to go.

Please ask me if you have any other questions, I'm willing to share my experiences.

Re: Life and death in Apple’s forbidden city

#13

Post by matt4077 »

afpx wrote: post #7

The only thing that I can add is an anecdote. Around 2000, I worked at a startup that was streamlining the globalization logistics for large manufacturers. One aspect of our software was a qualitative and quantitative rating system for factories in low-cost countries. One of our largest challenges was coming up with reliable scoring metrics that couldn't be gamed by the factories. Because Of this, we eventually had t…

Please note that the myth of a high rate of suicides at Apple's factories has been proven to be an invention.

Re: Life and death in Apple’s forbidden city

#14

Post by tooltalk »

fludlight wrote: post #11
tooltalk wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's not forget that the average age of Foxconn worker is only 23. According to (somewhat dated) WHO, that age group has the lowest suicide rate ( http://www.who.int/mental_health/media/chin.pdf ) Number of suicides by age group and gender. CHINA (mainland, selected rural and urban areas*), 1999. Age (years) 5-14 15-24 25-34 35-44 45-54 55-64 65-74 75+ All Males 83 626 1357 1287 1196 1165 1325 1009 8048 Females 64 9…

You should look at per capita suicide rates because populations are not distributed evenly by age group. Also, China in 1999 was a very different country so it's difficult to draw conclusions from this dataset about the situation there today.

Sure, I also accounted for the One-Child policy which started in 1979. It still supports the conclusion that the suicide rate is much lower for that age group:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_China#/media/F...

Re: Life and death in Apple’s forbidden city

#15

Post by tapatio »

briffle wrote: post #10
jp_sc wrote: post #6

Doesn't Foxconn also manufacture products for many other companies? It doesn't matter because, at the end of the article: "This is an edited extract from The One Device: The Secret History of the iPhone by Brian Merchant, published by Bantam Press (£16.99). To order a copy for £14.44 go to bookshop.theguardian.com"

They recently announced they are going to build a huge $10Billion plant in Wisconsin to build LCD screens. (likely related to their Sharp acquisition)

Only if they get the massive tax breaks they are demanding.

Re: Life and death in Apple’s forbidden city

#16

Post by breakbread »

peterburkimsher wrote: post #12

I went to Shenzhen and worked for Egoman, a Chinese company that made the first batch of Raspberry Pis, before that manufacturing got moved to Wales. The dormitories look typical. I arranged to stay in one through a different friend; mine wasn't arranged by the company. Now I'm in Taiwan, and life is better here. Factories are newer and cleaner, and working hours are more sane. Chinese factories often set long shifts…

Where are you from originally?

What people usually do after their shift ends? Just return to their respective dorms? Are their any public spaces in or around the factory where people gather?

Re: Life and death in Apple’s forbidden city

#17

Post by tajen »

matt4077 wrote: post #13
afpx wrote: post #7

The only thing that I can add is an anecdote. Around 2000, I worked at a startup that was streamlining the globalization logistics for large manufacturers. One aspect of our software was a qualitative and quantitative rating system for factories in low-cost countries. One of our largest challenges was coming up with reliable scoring metrics that couldn't be gamed by the factories. Because Of this, we eventually had t…

Please note that the myth of a high rate of suicides at Apple's factories has been proven to be an invention.

Given how many times it's been said and how sensible the question is, would you have a source for that?

Re: Life and death in Apple’s forbidden city

#18

Post by pm90 »

peterburkimsher wrote: post #12

I went to Shenzhen and worked for Egoman, a Chinese company that made the first batch of Raspberry Pis, before that manufacturing got moved to Wales. The dormitories look typical. I arranged to stay in one through a different friend; mine wasn't arranged by the company. Now I'm in Taiwan, and life is better here. Factories are newer and cleaner, and working hours are more sane. Chinese factories often set long shifts…

Why do people agree to work in such conditions? Please don't be offended by my question, but my impression was that literacy is very high in China, and everyone gets basic education. Are the workers not aware of how they're being exploited? Are they happy with what they do? What's the turnover like?

Re: Life and death in Apple’s forbidden city

#20

Post by bwang29 »

This is an extremely well written story, I kept imaging action scenes from thriller.

But I kept wondering the legality of actually stepping into an iPhone fab without permission. As the journalists might be seen as given prior approval, what if they saw the new iPhone and how does journalism in here functions toward revealing information v.s. respecting policies. I also felt that the reason this article was written is only for partially humanitarian cause, but still largely trying to capture curiosities from readership, and the risks definitely seem to have paid off.

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