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Tech companies: make remote work part of your diversity and inclusion efforts

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Re: Tech companies: make remote work part of your diversity and inclusion efforts

#41

Post by nilkn »

chaffe2 wrote: post #5
CabSauce wrote: post #3

I honestly think remote work is pretty detrimental to innovation and progress. Many of the best projects that I've worked on started as hallway conversations. Obviously, this isn't true for everyone and all situations... It's just like, my opinion... man.

Also, your physical presence is pretty much required if you want to have any sort of career progression. But it's great if you don't care about it and just want a steady paycheck that isn't eaten up by high cost of living.

This is definitely true in my (limited) experience. The company I'm at has some very talented remote developers, but it's impossible to make it into management without being onsite.

Re: Tech companies: make remote work part of your diversity and inclusion efforts

#42

Post by whipoodle »

dleslie wrote: post #18
maxxxxx wrote: post #2

Ain't not gonna happen. From what I can tell from articles and company brochures diversity means young, good-looking people in an open office all staring at the same screen. There will be no diversity regarding introverts, shy, disabled, fat, ugly or other types of people.

Particularly, anyone over the age of 35.

It blows me away that this so rarely comes up and yet it's a problem literally all of us will face, unless we get different careers or die. Even GP doesn't mention age, apparently the oppression of ugly people is a more pressing concern. It really fills me with dread how much we don't want to talk about this. And I turn 36 soon.

Re: Tech companies: make remote work part of your diversity and inclusion efforts

#43

Post by CabSauce »

throwaway91111 wrote: post #6
CabSauce wrote: post #3

I honestly think remote work is pretty detrimental to innovation and progress. Many of the best projects that I've worked on started as hallway conversations. Obviously, this isn't true for everyone and all situations... It's just like, my opinion... man.

Thankfully the vast majority of work has nothing to do with innovation. I'd love to hear your argument for "progress", whatever that is.

I meant innovation and progress in the sense of the sharing of good ideas, and solving shared problems. If a remote job only involves some kind of repeated task, it could probably just be automated.

Re: Tech companies: make remote work part of your diversity and inclusion efforts

#44

Post by [deleted] »

maxxxxx wrote: post #2

Ain't not gonna happen. From what I can tell from articles and company brochures diversity means young, good-looking people in an open office all staring at the same screen. There will be no diversity regarding introverts, shy, disabled, fat, ugly or other types of people.

[deleted]

Re: Tech companies: make remote work part of your diversity and inclusion efforts

#45

Post by dleslie »

whipoodle wrote: post #42
dleslie wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Particularly, anyone over the age of 35.

It blows me away that this so rarely comes up and yet it's a problem literally all of us will face, unless we get different careers or die. Even GP doesn't mention age, apparently the oppression of ugly people is a more pressing concern. It really fills me with dread how much we don't want to talk about this. And I turn 36 soon.

I've had a few heated fights with hiring managers over candidates being immediately dismissed upon the discovery that they were over a certain age.

Re: Tech companies: make remote work part of your diversity and inclusion efforts

#46

Post by SomeStupidPoint »

j45 wrote: post #29
SomeStupidPoint wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This gets trotted out a lot, but has anyone actually compared the benefits of diversity versus monoculture in terms of long-term corporate performance? If we look at something like nations, its not immediately clear that diversity is a benefit: sure, it brings a plethora of perspectives and components from which the nation can draw, but it also makes it harder to develop a unified identity from which cooperative acti…

It makes it harder to develop a unified national identity if any one group believes they are the truth path and owners of universal values like kindness and goodness. The thing is, we all have in common these universal skills of kindness, goodness, neighborliness, hard work, love of family, value of education for children, value of opportunities, etc. Looking in a place like Canada, while not perfect, it is a lot bet…

We can look at places like Scandanavia (historically) for an example of a very healthy populace in a monoculture, and the present struggles there for problems with diversifying a monoculture.

You seem to have a very strawman version of what a monoculture means: you don't have to be putting down other cultures, but taking advantage of in-group feeling by, eg, dressing alike can confer a greater sense of community, which can benefit the organization as a whole.

Similarly, the things you listed are empty platitudes -- where cultures vary is how they implement those ideals and the trade-offs between ideals that they settle on in that implementation.

To use an exaggeration: pointing out to sheep that wolves just want a happy life too doesn't do anything to alleviate the problem that for the wolves, that means eating sheep and for the sheep, that means not being eaten.

Re: Tech companies: make remote work part of your diversity and inclusion efforts

#47

Post by mixmastamyk »

maxxxxx wrote: post #40
j45 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting - I know someone who has gotten good at somehow locating, interviewing and hiring some very skilled and talented people who might not interview well because of their perceived social awkwardness. People wonder where he's finding all these great people, but the reality is he was able to connect with introverts, and drilling down into people's capabilities beyond surface impressions.

I just experienced this in an interview. The first 50 minutes were horrible, he barely said anything useful, but then suddenly he woke up and it turned into a really good conversation. Not sure how this happened though.

People are often nervous in interviews, though it can be hard for anyone to keep that energy level over the long term. Or perhaps you smiled?

Re: Tech companies: make remote work part of your diversity and inclusion efforts

#48

Post by maxxxxx »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #47
maxxxxx wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just experienced this in an interview. The first 50 minutes were horrible, he barely said anything useful, but then suddenly he woke up and it turned into a really good conversation. Not sure how this happened though.

People are often nervous in interviews, though it can be hard for anyone to keep that energy level over the long term. Or perhaps you smiled?

Talking is not a natural state for a lot of people. Relaxing or smiling is not enough. You actually need to motivate them to talk.

Re: Tech companies: make remote work part of your diversity and inclusion efforts

#49

Post by roguecoder »

devmunchies wrote: post #21
forinti wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think more emphasis should be given on the benefit that diversity brings to the organization. A university or a company with lots of young white middle-class people will miss a lot of ideias that people from other backgrounds might bring.

This is dangerous thinking. Its skin-deep diversity. This makes it ok to look at a person and assume they have a typical middle class upbringing, but you don't know anything about that person. They could have grew up doing hard labor on an almond farm in central California and then lived a few years in haiti before going to college. Diversity does increase innovation, but its a diversity of experience and a diversity…

You can't have a representative group without diversity of gender and race. They may not be sufficient, but they are necessary precursors.

Additionally, of course, a system that even implicitly excludes people on the basis of gender or race is inherently unjust, whereas experience can reasonably be a requirement for a particular position when it results in necessary skills.

Re: Tech companies: make remote work part of your diversity and inclusion efforts

#50

Post by maxxxxx »

twblalock wrote: post #35

Companies have to be serious about a culture of remote work for this to happen. That means including the remote workers in all of the meetings, code reviews, etc. It means making a conscious effort to include the remote employees even when doing so is a pain for the onsite employees. Otherwise the remote employees become second-class citizens and miss out on a lot of what is going on. For that reason, I think remote-…

From my experience a mix within a team won't work well. You can have either remote-only or onsite-only teams. Both need a chunk of work where they can make autonomous decisions. Same for offshoring teams. Give them work they can finish without having to coordinate too much with the onsite people.
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