Bitcoin Is Forking Again • Hacker News Board

Re: Bitcoin Is Forking Again

#21

Post by atemerev » Thu, Aug 17, 2017, 10:14 PM UTC

speakeron wrote: post #5

atemerev wrote: post #2

I can fork Bitcoin tomorrow. So can anybody else. The only matter if whether the fork can gather enough traction to have value.

In particular, whether it can gain enough mining power to survive. Currently, SegWit2x (the fork discussed here) has 92% of miners signalling that they'll support it[1]. The question in this case is whether the original Bitcoin could survive after the fork if this support is maintained. [1] https://coin.dance/blocks

This is interesting. If this is correct, it amounts to a power grab, transferring decision power from Core maintainers to the miners consensus.

However, algorithmically speaking, miners consensus _is_ Bitcoin. The only authority Core developers have is rooted in tradition. So far, it was enough to get miners to agree with their point of view... but it will be challenged eventually.

Re: Bitcoin Is Forking Again

#22

Post by tunetine » Thu, Aug 17, 2017, 10:14 PM UTC

atemerev wrote: post #19

sputknick wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll start mining atemerevCoin, launch my ICO and become rich. But in all seriousness, you are correct, and I think this is a good thing. If they can't decide what Bitcoin should look like, fork it, launch all three, and we will soon find out which one people want. However in my opinion, Bitcoin is also an evolutionary dead-end, and the future is Ethereum.

Both Bitcoin and Ethereum have merits, which is reflected in their corresponding market prices. (Bitcoin is perfect for value storage; Ethereum is becoming an universal financial applications platform).

Market prices are propped up propaganda at this point. Universal what? Please, no.

Re: Bitcoin Is Forking Again

#23

Post by id122015 » Thu, Aug 17, 2017, 10:15 PM UTC

what I dislike about crypto curencies beside forking is the size of the chain. Even latest software downloads over 1GB

Re: Bitcoin Is Forking Again

#24

Post by d33 » Thu, Aug 17, 2017, 10:17 PM UTC

atemerev wrote: post #21

speakeron wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In particular, whether it can gain enough mining power to survive. Currently, SegWit2x (the fork discussed here) has 92% of miners signalling that they'll support it[1]. The question in this case is whether the original Bitcoin could survive after the fork if this support is maintained. [1] https://coin.dance/blocks

This is interesting. If this is correct, it amounts to a power grab, transferring decision power from Core maintainers to the miners consensus. However, algorithmically speaking, miners consensus _is_ Bitcoin. The only authority Core developers have is rooted in tradition. So far, it was enough to get miners to agree with their point of view... but it will be challenged eventually.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but they also control the software and could divert the users to a different fork if they wanted, right?

Re: Bitcoin Is Forking Again

#25

Post by rpowers » Thu, Aug 17, 2017, 10:18 PM UTC

honestlyreally wrote: post #20

rpowers wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly why I think of bitcoin as a pyramid scheme. Early adopters buy some entrance into the system (via mining or currency purchase) and then focus on recruiting more people to drive up their purchased value.

I think one day you'll look back and regret this post. Its still an early adopters phase. Recent transaction sent $160m, the fee was $0.70, it was confirmed within minutes. Not sure what to say if you can't see value there

I guess I'm not a multi millionaire who needs to transfer that kind of money? What exactly are people buying with bitcoin that cannot be done with standard currencies? Unless it offers some radical access to process or markets standard currencies do not, I just can't see the point.

Re: Bitcoin Is Forking Again

#26

Post by atemerev » Thu, Aug 17, 2017, 10:26 PM UTC

d33 wrote: post #24

atemerev wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is interesting. If this is correct, it amounts to a power grab, transferring decision power from Core maintainers to the miners consensus. However, algorithmically speaking, miners consensus _is_ Bitcoin. The only authority Core developers have is rooted in tradition. So far, it was enough to get miners to agree with their point of view... but it will be challenged eventually.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but they also control the software and could divert the users to a different fork if they wanted, right?

Well, no. They can release the reference client, but most users rarely employ it for transfers (most Bitcoins are either in cold storage, or in online wallets like Coinbase).

Anyway, after the hardfork, you'll get your balance in duplicated both chains (as all transactions before the hardfork are visible). The market forces will decide then how much each part costs.

Re: Bitcoin Is Forking Again

#27

Post by ajross » Thu, Aug 17, 2017, 10:28 PM UTC

endlessvoid94 wrote: post #16

IMO these forks do a massive disservice to the mainstream perception of this technology. From the outside, it looks like technologists are making technical decisions that impact businesses that are taking financial risk by utilizing the cryptocurrency. Forks like this increase the risk, undercutting the efficacy of the technology.

On the contrary these forks have finally clarified for mainstream consumers the ridiculous insanity involved in placing speculation value like this on near-completely illiquid virtual securities.

When the bubble pops, the fact that bitcoin cash was able to magically "invent" 10% of the value of the BTC market overnight will be seen as the jump-the-shark moment.

If this were a rational security with a working market, I'd be telling everyone to get out. But of course it's not, so you can't get out. There aren't nearly enough buyers. This is gonna be a fun ride.

Re: Bitcoin Is Forking Again

#28

Post by atemerev » Thu, Aug 17, 2017, 10:29 PM UTC

tunetine wrote: post #22

atemerev wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both Bitcoin and Ethereum have merits, which is reflected in their corresponding market prices. (Bitcoin is perfect for value storage; Ethereum is becoming an universal financial applications platform).

Market prices are propped up propaganda at this point. Universal what? Please, no.

Financial markets in general are propped up propaganda. We trade expectations. If the prices agree with the propaganda content, most market participants believe it to be true... until something unexpected shatters their belief.

Re: Bitcoin Is Forking Again

#29

Post by Nursie » Thu, Aug 17, 2017, 10:32 PM UTC

stale2002 wrote: post #13

metroidfan832 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the difficulty can be adjusted at fork time so it doesn't matter. Literally anyone can fork.

That would ALSO be a hard fork though. IE the legacy chain would be dead. Yes, the legacy chain people can create their own new fork, but then it has to deal with all the disadvantages of being a hard fork, and the old chain will be dead.

Why would the legacy chain be dead? Bitcoin Cash is a hard fork of Bitcoin, both still run.

Re: Bitcoin Is Forking Again

#30

Post by Nursie » Thu, Aug 17, 2017, 10:34 PM UTC

MichaelGG wrote: post #18

Nursie wrote: post #10

Giving more cash to the early adopters and 'investors' again. I suppose it's a neat way to gain some traction - hold BTC, get this for free...

This "fork" is really just the evolution of the main chain, that's all. It'll have more claim to the Bitcoin name than the "core" Bitcoin with small blocks. Keeping the transaction history is sort of the entire point.

That's somewhat orthogonal to my point - these forks are conjuring money out of thin air for those who already hold the currency.