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Dilution of whisky – the molecular perspective

nature.com

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Re: Dilution of whisky – the molecular perspective

#41

Post by anfractuosity »

bmelton wrote: post #35
tptacek wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends very much on the whiskey! Most whiskeys are somewhere in the 40-48 ABV band (they're definitely not all diluted to exactly 40%), but "cask strength" whiskeys go all the way up to the mid-60s (the idea of cask strength whiskey is that you're supposed to dilute it yourself; it's sold undiluted so that more of your money is going towards ethanol than water).

The 2016 release of George T Stagg came out of the cask at 144 proof, or ~72%. You might want to recalibrate your high-water mark. ;-)

Wow, that's very high. I'm curious about whether the angels' share noticeably alters the ABV, from the time the distillate is put into the cask, to when it's bottled (as I'm assuming different evaporation rates for water & ethanol).

Edit: https://www.bruichladdich.com/article/the-angels-share Is quite interesting:

"Casks stored in humid conditions lose a greater proportion of alcohol than those stored at lower humidity levels. Conditions of low humidity draws more water through the staves - leaving a higher proportion of alcohol in the cask. "

Re: Dilution of whisky – the molecular perspective

#44

Post by bllguo »

gnat wrote: post #39

Huh, they used two different versions of the Amber software: v10 for molecular dynamics, v15 to calculate spatial distribution functions. Amber: http://ambermd.org/ I wonder why.

> Spatial distribution functions (SDFs) were calculated using the Grid command implemented in the AmberTools suite of programs (v. 15, USCF, San Francisco, USA)

Likely has to do with improvements to this Grid feature?

Re: Dilution of whisky – the molecular perspective

#45

Post by mohaine »

mirimir wrote: post #4

So guaiacol boils at 205°C. How does it end up in the whisky, after distillation? I mean, the water should come over before the guaiacol does.

Well, the water DOES come over. Whiskey is distilled to at most 80% AL so you get 20% water with other things coming along for the ride. If you go much higher then 80% you start loosing so much flavor that you might as well be aging vodka.

That said, most of the flavor still comes from the barrel.

Re: Dilution of whisky – the molecular perspective

#46

Post by nicholassmith »

levesque wrote: post #10

This is mostly seen from the angle of guaiacol, which is relevant for peaty whiskies. Does this hold for less peat-forward whiskies? Could water dilution hurt some other compounds?

Caveat: I am not a scientist, just a humble lover of a dram. I don't generally go for peaty whiskies, much preferring the Speyside flavour profile and some of them benefit from a couple of drops of water. It differs from whisky to whisky, and age to age. I'll generally try one without, one with, and decide what my favourite is.

Re: Dilution of whisky – the molecular perspective

#47

Post by nicholassmith »

tptacek wrote: post #33
ihartley wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if he's talking about scotch. Pretty sure it applies to bourbon and other non-scotch whiskeys, too.

This is truly the tabs-versus-spaces pointless debate of drinking culture.

The Martini is the tabs-versus-spaces debate of drinking culture.

(But there is only one right way for that as well)

Re: Dilution of whisky – the molecular perspective

#48

Post by cmurphycode »

anfractuosity wrote: post #41
bmelton wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 2016 release of George T Stagg came out of the cask at 144 proof, or ~72%. You might want to recalibrate your high-water mark. ;-)

Wow, that's very high. I'm curious about whether the angels' share noticeably alters the ABV, from the time the distillate is put into the cask, to when it's bottled (as I'm assuming different evaporation rates for water & ethanol). Edit: https://www.bruichladdich.com/article/the-angels-share Is quite interesting: "Casks stored in humid conditions lose a greater proportion of alcohol than those stored at lower humidi…

Yes, the ABV raises or lowers depending on temperature and humidity. The Stagg almost certainly went in at 125 proof (barrel entry proof), so it got a big boost during the considerable aging process.

I've heard descriptions (from the producers) of barrels that gained / lost proof depending on what floor of the warehouse they were stored on. Pretty neat.

Re: Dilution of whisky – the molecular perspective

#49

Post by bmelton »

anfractuosity wrote: post #41
bmelton wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 2016 release of George T Stagg came out of the cask at 144 proof, or ~72%. You might want to recalibrate your high-water mark. ;-)

Wow, that's very high. I'm curious about whether the angels' share noticeably alters the ABV, from the time the distillate is put into the cask, to when it's bottled (as I'm assuming different evaporation rates for water & ethanol). Edit: https://www.bruichladdich.com/article/the-angels-share Is quite interesting: "Casks stored in humid conditions lose a greater proportion of alcohol than those stored at lower humidi…

So, in the case of the aforementioned Stagg, the distillate went into the barrels at 125 proof, and came out at 144. Clearly, the angel's share preferred to take water over distillate.

That said, the yield was horrible -- 10-15 gallons of spirit per barrel out of an initial barrel capacity of 55 gallons.

That said, I question whether humidity has as much to do with it as atmospheric pressure does. The benefits of barreling something like bourbon in a place like Kentucky is that they have 4 full seasons, and the variance in atmospheric pressure from cold winter to hot summer creates something of a capillary effect in the distillate -- as the weather gets hotter (and maybe more humid) the distillate pushes into the barrels, but pulls out during the cooler months.

Just putting the barrels in a hot place for its entire aging process might accelerate the aging, or it might mean that because it loses the breathing effect, it might extract more of the tannins and less desirable elements from the barrels.

Re: Dilution of whisky – the molecular perspective

#50

Post by anonymousDan »

NinjaViking wrote: post #17
ams6110 wrote: post #16

I've always spelled it whiskey.

That's the American/Irish spelling. If it's a Scotch it's whisky.

Comes from the word uisce, which is the Irish/Gaelic for water. Technically the Irish for whiskey itself though is 'uisce beatha', meaning 'water of life' ;)
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