72% of Consumers Don't Know What Net Neutrality Is • Hacker News Board

Re: 72% of Consumers Don't Know What Net Neutrality Is

#91

Post by hueving » Thu, Aug 17, 2017, 7:33 PM UTC

MBCook wrote: post #81

thephyber wrote: post #78

If you can't define it on a bumper sticker, most Americans won't "know what it is". As for the FCC, Ajit Pai, and Net Neutrality, I'm much more open-minded to the current FCC policy after having listened to him on the latest Recode/Decode podcast. His speaking patterns make him sound like he's an energetic jerk, but I don't disagree with lots of the policy agenda he mentioned. I detest the games they played with the…

If the FCC isn't the right body why change the rules? Why not leave the current status quo while Congress works on it (or until they do)?

Because the status quo is the wrong body setting rules. If you believe the FTC is appropriate, then the only thing to do is stop the FCC from enforcing rules and use the existing competition enforcement framework enforced by the FTC.

Re: 72% of Consumers Don't Know What Net Neutrality Is

#92

Post by hueving » Thu, Aug 17, 2017, 7:37 PM UTC

shmageggy wrote: post #58

leeoniya wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Net Equality would have likely perked up more interest. yeah, marketing is nuanced like that and i think this distinction would have made a good difference. net-favorism, anti-throttling, anti-discrimination, equal-access would have also done better, i think.

Anti-throttling is great. It's better rhetorically (who wants their data throttled?) and arguably clearer too, since that's what it comes down to in the end -- the ability for ISPs to throttle some content more than others.

No, the first thing that comes to mind when I hear that is a general bandwidth rate limit, which I think almost nobody has any problems with.

It doesn't correctly communicate that it's different rates for different target sites.

Re: 72% of Consumers Don't Know What Net Neutrality Is

#93

Post by mastax » Thu, Aug 17, 2017, 7:37 PM UTC

protomyth wrote: post #65

It would probably help if more advocates agreed on what they mean by net neutrality. Having listened to advocates on various news networks, I'm pretty confused what they actually mean. I would also like to see an actual bill with an actual legal definition. Given how regulations work, I would hope the authors of said bill put the actual regulations in it. I still want to see one of these advocacy groups put out a pro…

I think the existing Open Internet Order does a pretty good job:

https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-10-201A1.p... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FCC_Open_Internet_Order_2010

Re: 72% of Consumers Don't Know What Net Neutrality Is

#94

Post by rubatuga » Thu, Aug 17, 2017, 7:50 PM UTC

icebraining wrote: post #54

IntelMiner wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"artificial monopolies created by the state" I'm sorry, what? While I'm sure you're going to beat a drum about "regulation" and "free markets" it might be worth stepping back and actually assessing the issue from a practical, rather than ideological stance Utilities naturally gravitate toward monopoly. Would you want to have multiple sewer lines running to your house, because your upstairs bathroom costs more money t…

And yet, in my Western European country, I have four ISPs offering service (with their own cables) to my apartment.

That's inefficient. Why not just have one?

Re: 72% of Consumers Don't Know What Net Neutrality Is

#95

Post by colordrops » Thu, Aug 17, 2017, 7:52 PM UTC

thephyber wrote: post #78

If you can't define it on a bumper sticker, most Americans won't "know what it is". As for the FCC, Ajit Pai, and Net Neutrality, I'm much more open-minded to the current FCC policy after having listened to him on the latest Recode/Decode podcast. His speaking patterns make him sound like he's an energetic jerk, but I don't disagree with lots of the policy agenda he mentioned. I detest the games they played with the…

Funny, I don't agree with almost any of the policy agenda he mentioned. Could you be specific about what policies you agree with?

Re: 72% of Consumers Don't Know What Net Neutrality Is

#96

Post by jryan49 » Thu, Aug 17, 2017, 7:53 PM UTC

Torai wrote: post #31

Are ISPs really going to stop abiding by Net Neutrality rules? Wouldn't that offer a big competitive opportunity for an ISP that supports Net Neutrality?

Not if there are no choices. We've already seen the ISPs not encroaching on each other's territories to not compete. It's basically a cartel.

Re: 72% of Consumers Don't Know What Net Neutrality Is

#97

Post by dogruck » Thu, Aug 17, 2017, 8:02 PM UTC

It's likely that many people who claim to "know what net neutrality is" don't actually understand it. Perhaps the 72% is simply honest.

Is every packet equal?

Re: 72% of Consumers Don't Know What Net Neutrality Is

#98

Post by drdaeman » Thu, Aug 17, 2017, 8:03 PM UTC

IntelMiner wrote: post #50

sandov wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it would make too much sense to criticize the artificial monopolies created by the state instead of complaining about ISPs!

"artificial monopolies created by the state" I'm sorry, what? While I'm sure you're going to beat a drum about "regulation" and "free markets" it might be worth stepping back and actually assessing the issue from a practical, rather than ideological stance Utilities naturally gravitate toward monopoly. Would you want to have multiple sewer lines running to your house, because your upstairs bathroom costs more money t…

Actually, I really wonder why it doesn't work that way in the US.

I worked for an ISP company that grew from a tiny startup, connecting just a few buildings, to a successful ISP that covered a significant part (almost all, I believe) of small (200K) city in Russia.

I haven't really interacted much with our network builders department (worked on software, and left the company some years ago, moving to another city), but IIRC in overall it worked like this - people found our offers interesting and signed up to get their buildings/apartments connected. We chose new addresses we were able to physically reach, got the approval from the building owners and the city, and laid down the wires, extending the network's frontiers.

We laid our own fiber (or, sometimes, copper) and used wireless bridges whenever we weren't able to reach otherwise. We had also leased fiber from other companies (there are companies here that have business just by providing underlying infrastructure but not offering the Internet connectivity). It's not like adding an extra fiber to an existing conduit is comparable to installing a new sewer line.

In the end, having 4-5 actually different ISPs in a building - usually all with their own lines - was (still is) a norm where I had lived. Competing offerings drove prices down, and bad behavior (sans the state-mandated ones) were mostly non-existent.

What's so different in the US, that even Google had failed?

Re: 72% of Consumers Don't Know What Net Neutrality Is

#99

Post by icebraining » Thu, Aug 17, 2017, 8:19 PM UTC

rubatuga wrote: post #94

icebraining wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet, in my Western European country, I have four ISPs offering service (with their own cables) to my apartment.

That's inefficient. Why not just have one?

Why not have a single lane in highways?

There's a reason why I regularly measure more than what I have contracted, on independent speedtests. It's not inefficiency, it's allowance.

Re: 72% of Consumers Don't Know What Net Neutrality Is

#100

Post by overcast » Thu, Aug 17, 2017, 8:20 PM UTC

So basically the 80/20 rule, that applies to most everything. The internet is still the Blue E. Is something happening to that E? Then nothing to worry about.