A 2:15 Alarm, 2 Trains and a Bus Get Her to Work by 7 A.M • Hacker News Board

Re: A 2:15 Alarm, 2 Trains and a Bus Get Her to Work by 7 A.M

#61

Post by greyfox » Thu, Aug 17, 2017, 5:33 PM UTC

wang_li wrote: post #45

nxsynonym wrote: post #2

While the rising cost of housing is an easy target, why not put the pressure on the companies that are driving the influx of workers and out of control cost of living? If tech companies are drawing people into cities and forcing out those who keep the city itself operating, why not have them subsidize and improve public transportation? Lower income housing? Encourage more remote work or move their headquarters out of…

Just yesterday I was commenting here on this very situation, but she has already moved her home out of the city in search of less expensive rent. She really should find a job out of the city as well. If the highly paid workers in the city want to buy coffee or sandwiches or whatever, they can pay prices that reflect the true cost of living in the city and not some indirect subsidized price.

or just bring your own coffee and lunch?

Re: A 2:15 Alarm, 2 Trains and a Bus Get Her to Work by 7 A.M

#62

Post by ghomrassen » Thu, Aug 17, 2017, 5:34 PM UTC

What's to stop San Francisco from creating a lot more high-density housing? Doesn't that solve many issues with housing supply? Looking at wikipedia, the density is crazy low even compared to other major cities in the US.

Re: A 2:15 Alarm, 2 Trains and a Bus Get Her to Work by 7 A.M

#63

Post by davidf18 » Thu, Aug 17, 2017, 5:34 PM UTC

nxsynonym wrote: post #2

While the rising cost of housing is an easy target, why not put the pressure on the companies that are driving the influx of workers and out of control cost of living? If tech companies are drawing people into cities and forcing out those who keep the city itself operating, why not have them subsidize and improve public transportation? Lower income housing? Encourage more remote work or move their headquarters out of…

The issue is the zoning density restrictions that cause and politically induced scarcity of housing -- "rent seeking" a form of market failure or market inefficiency. The fix is quite simple: rescind the zoning laws that create artificial scarcity of land which benefits wealthy landlords such as our President Trump while making renters pay far higher rents than they would in a functioning, efficient market.

Since about 2001, Japan has had federal laws that overrule local laws related to zoning. The result: in 2014, 140,000 housing units built in Tokyo vs Get rid of the laws that create market failures, that prohibit the market from working efficiently, and you will see a big housing boom and plenty of housing. It is really that simple.

Re: A 2:15 Alarm, 2 Trains and a Bus Get Her to Work by 7 A.M

#64

Post by christoph » Thu, Aug 17, 2017, 5:34 PM UTC

slackfan wrote: post #53

gozur88 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but with a self-driving car you'll be able to sleep during your commute.

I have slept and have seen plenty of other people sleep on trains all the time. Doesn't really change anything.

Tokyo is particularly well known for it.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/community/2013/03/09/our-lives/...

Re: A 2:15 Alarm, 2 Trains and a Bus Get Her to Work by 7 A.M

#65

Post by KekDemaga » Thu, Aug 17, 2017, 5:34 PM UTC

Dylan16807 wrote: post #51

KekDemaga wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

California building codes are pretty extreme from what I've seen, they go as far as measuring the pull force required to open a door for example. This seems like a place where a little deregulation would go a long way.

When zoning aggressively blocks dense housing, I don't think it's the little code details that matter.

You are correct, I was conflating zoning and building codes a bit there. Zoning should take the lions share of blame when it comes to costs.

Re: A 2:15 Alarm, 2 Trains and a Bus Get Her to Work by 7 A.M

#66

Post by asdfnn88 » Thu, Aug 17, 2017, 5:35 PM UTC

andrewjl wrote: post #6

nxsynonym wrote: post #2

While the rising cost of housing is an easy target, why not put the pressure on the companies that are driving the influx of workers and out of control cost of living? If tech companies are drawing people into cities and forcing out those who keep the city itself operating, why not have them subsidize and improve public transportation? Lower income housing? Encourage more remote work or move their headquarters out of…

This isn't an issue of tech companies forcing anyone out. Bay area municipalities and NIMBY property owners have created a hostile regulatory environment for property developers, leading to a lack of new housing coming onto the market and driving rents upward.

What's that? Private ownership at scale leads to outcomes that favor the owners class at the expense of the general public?

You don't say! Why, if only someone had said something sooner.

Re: A 2:15 Alarm, 2 Trains and a Bus Get Her to Work by 7 A.M

#67

Post by ghaff » Thu, Aug 17, 2017, 5:35 PM UTC

edward wrote: post #11

I think these articles about extreme commutes are interesting. I recommend you read what Mr. Money Mustache has to say on the subject. http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/10/06/the-true-cost-of-c...

Eh. It's reasonable to point out that even a That said, selling and buying houses (or changing jobs) on an ongoing basis so you're right next to your job doesn't seem like a great strategy either. And likely not a plausible one, at least outside of a city, if you have a partner who also goes into an office.

Re: A 2:15 Alarm, 2 Trains and a Bus Get Her to Work by 7 A.M

#68

Post by Analemma_ » Thu, Aug 17, 2017, 5:35 PM UTC

nxsynonym wrote: post #40

Analemma_ wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are so many misconceptions in this post... > why not put the pressure on the companies that are driving the influx of workers and out of control cost of living? What do you hope to accomplish with this "pressure"? That these companies hire fewer people? > Lower income housing? Housing costs are one of those nasty problems where throwing money at it just doesn't work (and I'm saying this as a democratic socialis…

I'll admit I'm not a city planner. I don't have the answers to the problems. It's just frustrating to see what's happening with these mega-cities and how it's affecting the lives of so many people negatively. Surely the benefit of having these boosted economies doesn't outweigh the negative aspects - or do they? Bay area has a whole bucket of specific problems - but there are general shared trends that extend to othe…

> Surely the benefit of having these boosted economies doesn't outweigh the negative aspects - or do they?

I think the answer is that with well-managed development, having boosted economies can have few or no negative aspects, but the Bay Area is sorely lacking that right now. As others have said, the lion's share of the blame is not with the tech companies (they're just hiring workers they need), but with the area's terrible NIMBY politics that are blocking the construction of more housing.

Re: A 2:15 Alarm, 2 Trains and a Bus Get Her to Work by 7 A.M

#69

Post by mikejholly » Thu, Aug 17, 2017, 5:36 PM UTC

As a 5-year-long remote worker this seems archaic and cruel.

Re: A 2:15 Alarm, 2 Trains and a Bus Get Her to Work by 7 A.M

#70

Post by santaclaus » Thu, Aug 17, 2017, 5:36 PM UTC

ghomrassen wrote: post #62

What's to stop San Francisco from creating a lot more high-density housing? Doesn't that solve many issues with housing supply? Looking at wikipedia, the density is crazy low even compared to other major cities in the US.

> What's to stop San Francisco from creating a lot more high-density housing?

Entrenched residents who oppose new construction, primarily. Look at the recent kerfuffles involving residents opposing the replacement of parking lots with housing.