Concrete-free washing machines are lighter to transport, just as good in a spin • Hacker News Board

Re: Concrete-free washing machines are lighter to transport, just as good in a spin

#111

Post by ty_a » Thu, Aug 17, 2017, 4:05 PM UTC

petra wrote: post #95

rsynnott wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because no-one wants to pay for that. Washing machines which last exist, but they're expensive. They use sturdier, more easily replaceable parts, higher quality motors and control systems, etc. And sometimes _iron_ counterweights (even more CO2 there). You can get a washing machine that might last perhaps 5-10 years for about 200-300 euro... or a Miele one that'll probably last over 20 years for 1000 euro. It's a har…

1000 euros per 20 years = 50 euro per year. 250 euros per ~7.5 years = 33 euros per year. See the problem ? But also improving the reliability of washing machines isn't hard or expensive. Remember, you're talking about a machine that the most common source of problem with it is a broken/faulty lid switch. cheap and easy to fix. Surely, with that level of engineered failure(or maybe extreme cost engineering), there's…

Not buying, replacing, installing, or disposing of three washers: Priceless.

Re: Concrete-free washing machines are lighter to transport, just as good in a spin

#112

Post by petra » Thu, Aug 17, 2017, 4:11 PM UTC

rsynnott wrote: post #105

petra wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1000 euros per 20 years = 50 euro per year. 250 euros per ~7.5 years = 33 euros per year. See the problem ? But also improving the reliability of washing machines isn't hard or expensive. Remember, you're talking about a machine that the most common source of problem with it is a broken/faulty lid switch. cheap and easy to fix. Surely, with that level of engineered failure(or maybe extreme cost engineering), there's…

I've never been convinced about the idea of serious engineered failure for this type of device. I think there are two problems, both consumer-related; price sensitivity (adjusted for inflation, these machines are far cheaper than they used to be) and demand for features (more modes, smartphone integration, bigger drum, higher spin speed), and something has to give. If you compare a low-end washing machine, say a Whir…

I'd be convinced that companies are seriously interested in offering good value combined with reliability or just repairability, when they'll start seriously marketing their products as such[1].

So far, only miele does that marketing, but sadly without the price.

[1]Gigabyte did/does that with motherboards, their ultra-durable line, when they tell you all kind of technical stuff(like "we use tantalum capacitors" which attack a common and cheap MB failure point) to convince you it's reliable.

Re: Concrete-free washing machines are lighter to transport, just as good in a spin

#113

Post by ars » Thu, Aug 17, 2017, 4:13 PM UTC

creeble wrote: post #99

Is this a British thing? I'm pretty sure my 22-year-old Kenmore washer doesn't have any concrete in it. I have it apart three or four times in 22 years for different maintenance (never costing more than $50 in parts) and it's not particularly heavy.

No, not a British thing. But only front loaders need it, since old top loaders don't spin very fast.

Re: Concrete-free washing machines are lighter to transport, just as good in a spin

#114

Post by Max_Mustermann » Thu, Aug 17, 2017, 4:16 PM UTC

dingaling wrote: post #79

amelius wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been telling this for years every time I helped people move. The thought of patenting it crossed my mind, but I always assumed this would be "too simple" an invention, that companies probably already had figured out, but couldn't use because of some patent troll or something like that. Also, as a student, I didn't have the money for a patent application.

> Also, as a student, I didn't have the money for a patent application. That's the big probem for individuals. Patenting as an individual is expensive and as a friend learned the big companies can just sit-tight until the renewal fees become too much to bear. He had designed a self-assembly glassfibre astronomical observatory on the Buckmeister principle, with a wide-opening orifice using petal segments, and toured t…

Maybe a space for crowdfunding? or a dreaded ICO...

Re: Concrete-free washing machines are lighter to transport, just as good in a spin

#115

Post by Salamat » Thu, Aug 17, 2017, 4:21 PM UTC

So it is an old idea in a new usage.Water filled road barriers have been there for ages."The Jersey barrier, also called New Jersey wall, was developed in the 1950s (introduced in current form in 1959), at the Stevens Institute of Technology,[1] New Jersey, United States, under the direction of the New Jersey State Highway Department to divide multiple lanes on a highway". Wikifelia.

Re: Concrete-free washing machines are lighter to transport, just as good in a spin

#116

Post by ars » Thu, Aug 17, 2017, 4:22 PM UTC

Bjartr wrote: post #70

My top loader has damping springs at the bottom and a plastic "balance ring"[1] around the top of the basket that's filled with fluid to reduce vibrations. Certainly no concrete anywhere in it, that I could see when I took the cover/case off anyway. Though I've been having problems with it shaking too much during the spin cycle, so I wish it did have concrete. [1] http://www.appliancepartspros.com/whirlpool-balance-r…

Only front loaders have it. Top loaders don't spin fast enough to need it.

Re: Concrete-free washing machines are lighter to transport, just as good in a spin

#117

Post by creeble » Thu, Aug 17, 2017, 4:22 PM UTC

Bjartr wrote: post #70

My top loader has damping springs at the bottom and a plastic "balance ring"[1] around the top of the basket that's filled with fluid to reduce vibrations. Certainly no concrete anywhere in it, that I could see when I took the cover/case off anyway. Though I've been having problems with it shaking too much during the spin cycle, so I wish it did have concrete. [1] http://www.appliancepartspros.com/whirlpool-balance-r…

Try replacing the springs, or checking to see if one is broken. Happened to me.

22 years, same washing machine.

Re: Concrete-free washing machines are lighter to transport, just as good in a spin

#118

Post by creeble » Thu, Aug 17, 2017, 4:28 PM UTC

Gracana wrote: post #39

agumonkey wrote: post #15

god dammit, yet another stupid idea I thought nobody would ever like. ps: same goes for almost every dead weight transport. Road blocks, you name it. Someone computes the wasted energy ? pps: what about vertical axis spinning models ? I remember people saying they were inneficient. Anyone can explain ? ppps: I remember a guy in africa coupling a dead bike to a vertical spinning container. sigh

Horizontal axis is better because it tumbles the clothes through a small puddle of water at the bottom. Vertical axis requires lots of energy to agitate, and a lot of water.

Is there actual evidence that consumer horizontal machines take less energy per cycle?

Re: Concrete-free washing machines are lighter to transport, just as good in a spin

#119

Post by creeble » Thu, Aug 17, 2017, 4:31 PM UTC

agumonkey wrote: post #44

Gracana wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Horizontal axis is better because it tumbles the clothes through a small puddle of water at the bottom. Vertical axis requires lots of energy to agitate, and a lot of water.

Yeah I just read about the need for swapping clothes in vertical axis, although people added fins to move them around. Interesting.

Need? Like, there are people going around complaining that their clothes never get clean enough unless they swap them around in the washer?

I have found most washer "innovations" are simply ways for companies to sell new washers, rather than having people fix old ones.

Re: Concrete-free washing machines are lighter to transport, just as good in a spin

#120

Post by TheSpiceIsLife » Thu, Aug 17, 2017, 4:35 PM UTC

switch007 wrote: post #93

rsynnott wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because no-one wants to pay for that. Washing machines which last exist, but they're expensive. They use sturdier, more easily replaceable parts, higher quality motors and control systems, etc. And sometimes _iron_ counterweights (even more CO2 there). You can get a washing machine that might last perhaps 5-10 years for about 200-300 euro... or a Miele one that'll probably last over 20 years for 1000 euro. It's a har…

My problem is that I'm willing to spend the money but I'm worried about getting burnt. It can be difficult to ascertain what product is worth spending money on and how much extra to spend exactly. There is zero guarantee of spending more to get higher quality and longer life. It takes a lot of research. You need to be really, really determined to follow the "Buy It For Life" way.

Ask a repaid shop!

Of course, they're unlikely to know how well an all new model will last, but most manufacturers don't have all new components in a new model.

I bought my current machine secondhand for AU$200. When it fails beyond repair I plan on buying another on from a repairer, so I'll have the opportunity to ask them what parts commonly fail that make machines unrepairable.